Ludo Lense 17. helmi, 2014 10.32
This game hates you if you are a new player
If never seen a game that is quite so against the "pick up and play" concept. Not even Dwarf Fortress or EvE online. Which is a damn shame because it's a really well thought out game in terms of game mechanics, theme and balance.

First off, a team of rookie marines utterly beats a team of rookie aliens. The standard shooting is much more familiar than the alien movement to the average player. Which is why you see the akward moment on rookie servers when nobody wants to go on the aliens side and everybody is pressing against the marine door in the ready room. I am willing to bet that most new player's first matches are on the aliens side, since they don't know anything past that tutorial, and it's a slaughter.

Secondly, the game tries to highlight rookie players and have rookies servers but really other people won't teach you anything. I have been told to play at times with more people (6PM + apparently), that didn't help at all. It was either friends that played together and talked amongst themselves or commanders that just gave flat orders and who knew the game followed them.

Thirdly, the community...isn't the nicest I've seen. During my first game I asked in team chat about which buildings do you usually attack first (I was an alien surprise suprise) and the immediate and succint response was "f off n00b". Now I know this was just some guy but I'll admit it slightly soured my excitment to play a new game. I won't list the racial slurs and homophobic statments but suffice to say that since the game doesn't like new players neither do the veterans.

Fourthly, the game is not learned through playing but by researching. This is the only profound negative opinion I have regarding it. If you want to learn this game you have to open the wiki and start reading and then practicing vs bots....practicing a LOT. Of course other games require you to research to reach the "depth" (stuff like min/maxing, speed running, best in slot etc.) but this game requires you to do all that just to "play" the game properly which is, in my opinion, horrible game design.

Chess takes 5 minutes to explain, 1 game to understand and a lifetime to perfect.

I am sure people with a lot of free time on their hands, copious amounts of tenacity and a generally eltist attitude (see people who say "Old school WoW pvp is good because 40+ buttons means that all the dirty casuals that dare enter an arena without 100 hours of training get filtered out".) will enjoy sinking their teeth in something that requires so much to get a working handle and even more to get good. Of course you can have a coach friend to rectify this but not everybody has this luxury.

It might seem that I hate the game but I actually respect it in a strange sort of way. It feels like a private club that's at the top of a moutain...a really high mountain that's covered in razor wire and mines. Sadly it just left one of the worst first impressions on me given how good the game is.

I won't be returning to it since it seems like work to get anywhere...and I already have work to do so I don't starve or freeze.
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EChO 17. helmi, 2014 10.46 
Thoughtshard lähetti viestin:
It feels like a private club that's at the top of a moutain...a really high mountain that's covered in razor wire and mines.
Thats poetry right there, ladies and gentlemen.
Hobocop 17. helmi, 2014 11.18 
I can't really agree about needing to research the wiki or practicing against bots to learn the game. Never had to do that to learn anything in this game, and practicing against bots isn't that useful anyway, because all you have to do is research shotguns on marines in bot games and go AFK. Anything of value to be learned in a bot game can be learned in sandbox, namely map layouts and location names, which structure does what, and where the upgrades and different commander abilities are.

On the other points...mileage may vary. It really depends a lot on the particular community of players that frequent particular servers.
Viimeisin muokkaaja on Hobocop; 17. helmi, 2014 11.22
ThunderCougarFalconBird 17. helmi, 2014 11.51 
To much text. Im gonna ssume you're complaining that it's to hard and then compare it to EVE Online. That alone is enough to discredit your post. Have a nice day.
Ludo Lense 17. helmi, 2014 12.02 
ThunderCougarFalconBird lähetti viestin:
To much text. Im gonna ssume you're complaining that it's to hard and then compare it to EVE Online. That alone is enough to discredit your post. Have a nice day.

So you are basically assuming, and wrongly I might add, what I said and then giving your judgement with no real argument. Why did you even bother posting?

Here's the short of it. Game's good, learning curve is bad, community is horrible due to players like you. Have a nice day.
Dr. David Kibner 17. helmi, 2014 12.19 
Thoughtshard lähetti viestin:
ThunderCougarFalconBird lähetti viestin:
To much text. Im gonna ssume you're complaining that it's to hard and then compare it to EVE Online. That alone is enough to discredit your post. Have a nice day.

So you are basically assuming, and wrongly I might add, what I said and then giving your judgement with no real argument. Why did you even bother posting?

Here's the short of it. Game's good, learning curve is bad, community is horrible due to players like you. Have a nice day.

Hit the nail on the head. Games shouldn't be work. If you have to pay to work in order to have fun then that's not a game anymore. Love the idea of NS2, think it looks great, the guy who built it up from the first mod is a great guy, but, like the OP said...
Robasaurus Rex 17. helmi, 2014 12.32 
This summarizes my first few plays so thoroughly, I'm almost suspicious you were watching me.
ThunderCougarFalconBird 17. helmi, 2014 13.09 
Thoughtshard lähetti viestin:
ThunderCougarFalconBird lähetti viestin:
To much text. Im gonna ssume you're complaining that it's to hard and then compare it to EVE Online. That alone is enough to discredit your post. Have a nice day.

So you are basically assuming, and wrongly I might add, what I said and then giving your judgement with no real argument. Why did you even bother posting?

Here's the short of it. Game's good, learning curve is bad, community is horrible due to players like you. Have a nice day.



lol umadbro?
Viimeisin muokkaaja on ThunderCougarFalconBird; 17. helmi, 2014 13.10
Nali Warcow - Birthday' 17. helmi, 2014 13.12 
I dont know bvut i needed a ton of time for chess to learn...
ThunderCougarFalconBird 17. helmi, 2014 14.57 
He's probably only played for a very short time and is just raging because he isn't past the intial learning curve yet.
Crouchasaurs 17. helmi, 2014 16.00 
Problem is you're playing with the NA community.
RaZDaZ 17. helmi, 2014 16.03 
Well the community isn't that bad, I rarely meet ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥s. It's nowhere near the level assery of SC2 or MOBA games. Give it a few more hours and get into it, don't worry about your K/D or W/L or any statistics, just learn the game. It is demanding but it's a very rewarding game in the same sense that WoW players will raid 5 days a week for years.

Learning curve is high and it's both a beauty and a cyst. This is the type of game where it will likely be one of your core games if you want to play at a decent level.

Some aspects can and have helped but they haven't been focused on. Combat mode for example.
horst triebfürst 17. helmi, 2014 16.33 
This game hates you if you are a new player

right!
Viimeisin muokkaaja on horst triebfürst; 17. helmi, 2014 16.33
tL =Flyingbadger 17. helmi, 2014 17.00 
ThunderCougarFalconBird is the epitome of what is wrong with this game as well as video games in general. You don't walk around every day going "lolumadbro", do you? If you do than I assume you live a pretty lonely life.
ThunderCougarFalconBird 17. helmi, 2014 17.25 
I actually contribute when it will go to good use. Posting up on a 576 word steam discussion about how "hard" a game is, isn't really the best way to find good advice or feedback. Unless it comes from Hobocop.
Viimeisin muokkaaja on ThunderCougarFalconBird; 17. helmi, 2014 17.27
Angelo 17. helmi, 2014 18.00 
>> First off, a team of rookie marines utterly beats a team of rookie aliens.

The asymmetric teams are one of NS2's greatest weaknesses for new players, but it's one of the greatest strengths at the same time for players who decide to stick with the game.

It's been a while since I've personally played with all-out, or at least mostly, rookie players on both teams but your argument regarding Marines having an edge because it's more familiar to FPS players than Aliens seems logic.

That being said, the huge influx of new players came due to a recent sale. Usually you see - even on rookie Servers - mostly advanced/experienced players with the occasional Rookie players mixed in-between them.

The Alien team being more difficult to understand and learn might drive some people off the game altogether, or at least encourage them to be exclusive Marine players (in turn perhaps resulting in stacked games when newer players go "Marine only" while more experienced players don't mind joining the Alien side, resulting in unbalanced teams experience wise).

So all in all I'd say it's a mixed bag. While it probably hurts player retention rates due to bad "first time" experiences for new players and might drive people off, on the other hand those who stick with the game really appreciate the diversity of the two teams.

For me personally it's almost as if I was playing 2 whole different games at the same time :D

Sadly, this game having these asymmetric teams also means that one team has to feel more familiar than the other. Unless you would be playing with more similar Marine/Human vs. Marine/Human teams. But the asymmetric teams are exactly what makes NS2 so unique and such a stand out experience compared to most other FPS games out there.

TL;DR: NS2 really is a double edged sword in this regard. Trade in accessibility/familiarity at least for 50% of the new players (assuming full blown rookie teams here) in favor of a unique play experience for 100% of the players... or at least for those who decide to stick with it.


>> Secondly, the game tries to highlight rookie players and have rookies servers
>> but really other people won't teach you anything.

>> Thirdly, the community...isn't the nicest I've seen.

Highly depends on the Server/Community you play on I'd say. From my personal experience (usually I play on 2 to 3 different non-rookie, non-competitive 18 to 20 player Servers where someone "underperforming" doesn't impact the teams overall performance as much as in say a 12 to 14 player Server) I've seen plenty Rookie players receive help learning the game, assuming they ask for it / ask specific questions.
The atmosphere - on the Servers I personally play on at least - has been from my observations very welcoming of the occasional rookie player. But like I said that experience will differ greatly from Server to Server.
Also keep in mind that lower player count Servers are probably more likely to be hostile towards rookie players on their team because individual performance impacts the game much more in lower player settings.


>> Fourthly, the game is not learned through playing but by researching.

To pick up on the Chess analogy:
The objective of the game is to kill the enemy King (Hive / Command Station respectively). There you have it, NS2 explained on the most basic level ;)

Not unlike Chess, NS2 is as simple or as complex as you want it to be.

Also basic logic applies, if you can choose to either take out a Pawn (Skulk/LMG Marine) or a Queen (Onos/Exo Suit) you go for the Queen of course.
Just like Chess though, you need to have an understanding of the rules before you know that a Queen is more valuable than a Pawn.

The in-game Tutorial helps somewhat in this respect, the rest came for me via simple play experience.
You can certainly play matches with bots to learn which thing does what or read wiki articles for hours on how many bullets/bites it takes with which upgrade to kill what.
But it isn't necessary to enjoy the game or mandatory to be "useful".

That being said though, NS2 is what I would call a thinking man's shooter. Having a sound understanding of the Mechanics / what each unit and building does helps you in making educated decisions.
Like I said though I personally learned all of this in-game without consulting a Wiki when I started out. More importantly though I had fun doing it and I felt like I also was a credit to the team.

Admittedly though, only after several 100 hours in actually, I did decide to delve deeper into the mechanics via Wiki/Forums to see how much damage each bullet/bite actually does, how many hits you need with which upgrades etc. but that's the same as taking a liking to chess after playing anything ranging from a couple to dozens of rounds and purchasing a book on Chess Strategies for example.

Like I said in my personal opinion you don't have to go this deep initially (or at all for that matter) in order to play and enjoy your NS2 experience, but it is something you naturally want to do over time if you take such a big liking to your hobby.

My tip to enjoy the game: if you don't want to read up or learn every little thing about the game mechanics: don't! Just play the game :) don't worry about all the specific mechanics in the beginning. If you want to learn more about it, can always ask in Chat (like I said experience may vary ;)) or read up on it at a later date.
My tip on how to be helpful for the team: stay in a small group with other - probably more experienced - players. Let them lead the way while you cover their butt. Shoot/bite the building they are shooting/biting.
If you have the luxury of choosing which living target to shoot/bite at, go for the biggest one since that is usually the most costly and also the most dangerous.

The rest will come to you, at your own pace. Either slowly but steadily through pure play experience and asking specific questions in chat, or through big chunks of information from the Wiki/Forum.
Viimeisin muokkaaja on Angelo; 17. helmi, 2014 18.06
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