Geiger Jul 13 @ 3:08am
Combating marines being underpowered! --->Tunnel's
Have noticed this for sometime now. Usually lose when im on Marines and win when im on Kharaa and it doesn't really matter how good the teams are. I have found that aliens have it to easy in early game grabbing game winning points (nano) and immediatly turn stationary with their defences all up in mid to end game. And i have a feeling this is all thanks to the Gorge tunnels.

Imo

- Gorge Tunnels shoud be researched like before...

- or cost 7 - 9 res per tunnel


This might even the odds and not make the game 1 sided anymore.


(other than that think everything is well balanced between life forms and weapons)

Showing 1-14 of 14 comments
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Royal Rampage Jul 13 @ 3:31am 
I see no problem with tunnels. If you're on veil, nano is usually a crucial part for aliens, which makes a tunnel to their effective, allowing them to hold 2 nodes (+1 base node) with out cysting. If they try for a tunnel somewher else, 3-4 marines usually enter and power it down.
If aliens start Cargo, marines can usually take Skylights/Overlook/Sub-Sector/Topographical/C-12/Pipeline (7 nodes, over the aliens 3 nodes).
"They can have NANO, we get the rest of the map"
Marines also usually get a PG in east/west junction and ARC out nano, to slow alien res flow and take control of it.

Also, a mid-late game rush with a sneaky tunnel usually helps the aliens turn the game around, provided they clear enough building within Control. And if you get the CC or cause a beacon and they lost their base phase that'll help clear everywhere
Last edited by Royal Rampage; Jul 13 @ 3:34am
Azure Zero Jul 13 @ 9:22am 
Marine can win on Veil, but it requires hitting the right spot.
Kerfuffle Jul 13 @ 3:21pm 
Nano =/= win.

There's a certain point where nano doesn't matter to aliens anymore. That's when they can't get a third hive, because once they run out of researchable upgrades they're done for. The time they spend just sitting on two hives with no ablitly to move forward with upgrades is when marines catch up and win.

Nano is crucial for aliens to get a head start on res, and deny the marines some, but if the aliens can't get a third hive location soon after finishing their second, they're done for.

There's nothing wrong with tunnels, they've helped make the game not only more equal but also more unpredictable. (Such as, holding pipeline when we start in sub-sector. It's a hard play but it's unique and adds more spice to the game). Marines have such a huge advantage when phase gates come out, that if aliens didn't have some sort of way to connect one side of the map to the other it'd be very easy to crush them every game.

And remember, a gorge tunnel requires not only a willing gorge but a reasonable team to defend it. A pack of marines can easily shoot one down otherwise.
100% Recycled Awesome Jul 13 @ 5:46pm 
Aliens locked into Cargo and Nano when the Marines have every other tech point and RT are doomed unless they can coordinate a bile rush exceptionally well. That's where Gorge tunnels come in handy: they're often the only thing an Alien team has left.

Plus if Marines know what they're doing, they'll either shoot the tunnel first or they'll take it and do a suicide upgrade hunt. Consider tunnels and asset and a liability. Sometimes I'll put whips around the tunnel entrance into a hive if Marines regularly start using it as a form of a phase gate.

IMO, tunnels balance out the game. A good tunnel placer can bypass static marine defenses and give Aliens a fighting chance.
Last edited by 100% Recycled Awesome; Jul 13 @ 5:48pm
Cat Jul 13 @ 6:03pm 
Im see Aliens match when they take Nano , marines taken the "rest of the map" and start Build Factory , sentry , ARC shooting through walls and Aliens cant do anything

because Early game gore dont have bible bomb
RootCookie Jul 14 @ 5:12am 
Maps are balanced to gameplay.
Nano is an early alien balance, its part of the scenario.

Marines do not need Nano, they dont need the early res, and Nano is recovered for marines with arcs very easily. Mid/late game when marines start losing weapons and want to push to finish they can arc and take/hold nano easy, for the res.

It is still pretty easy to ruin a gorges day and mess up early game tunnels/nests.
Last edited by RootCookie; Jul 14 @ 5:17am
Jackson | Free merc (comm) Jul 15 @ 12:49pm 
Gorge + Gorge tunnel (and eventually hydras) = no higher lifeform until late game. Have a nice day.
Geiger Jul 15 @ 1:19pm 
Thx for comments. Sry haven't answered my own thread but I've just had it playing on normal balanced servers, seeing that i haven't won a game on marine side in weeks. I would love to see in which team you guys get put in, but reading the comments it's hard to believe that there are balanced games.

The only server i know of that is specificly balanced by the host of the server is:

[NL] The Tick's BG 50h required



Only on this server I have witnessed the joy in playing NS2 again. Too bad all slots are almost always full.
Keijo Jul 15 @ 3:18pm 
It's kinda a problem in pub games that people take shortcuts, and like put couple of tunnels from start and rush certain spots, knowing that noob marines can't pull an organized attack to ever win it back.

Like it doesnt work agaisnt good marines but if the marines are even somewhat bad it's really easy to win them because they need to push in groups to win the map after a fast tunnel or two.

Like basicly most pub games are like that the one who wins a room from the enemy first holds it to the end of the game before everyone rqs and concedes, because it's really hard to win territory back with random people.

But i guess on veil it's even a bigger problem because if the marines lose the first fights on pubs they basicly never get out of topo/sky in the worst scenario, and holding only start+pipeline is just going to be a loss sooner or later.

Theres nothing wrong with tunnels but it's kinda easy to build one as noob alien and hard to kill one as a noob marine.

100% Recycled Awesome Jul 15 @ 6:10pm 
Originally posted by Jackson:
Gorge + Gorge tunnel (and eventually hydras) = no higher lifeform until late game. Have a nice day.

That's not a big problem though as you need gorges late game anyways. A dedicated competent gorge player from the start can win the game. Rookie games tend to go long because Aliens don't have gorges and rookie aliens often lose games because they don't have bile bomb. Not being able to afford a higher life form later on because you went gorge isn't a big deal when you need that gorge to win the game anyways.
SanCo Jul 17 @ 6:17am 
Its a huge problem on 24p servers, only take 3 gorges for complete map control within 30 seconds without losing much, if any pushing power for the rest of the team.

There was this one server where 1 gorge wass only able to make 1 exit/entrance, great mod.
Last edited by SanCo; Jul 17 @ 6:17am
Geiger Jul 17 @ 7:45am 
Well i usually play on 22 - 26 player servers. Have heared the game isn't balanced for larger servers. Could that be the problem?
Azure Zero Jul 17 @ 8:37am 
24 player servers are Ok, but going higher than 26 players it starts to break down in balance
Royal Rampage Jul 18 @ 5:51am 
24 is still pretty bad,
20-players maximum or 12-players minimum IMO
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