Natural Selection 2

Natural Selection 2

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CORR0S1VE Jul 9, 2014 @ 5:01am
Cooldown on Marine Medpack drop, and Addition of Direct Targetting
I've seen more than a few games where an entire room will quickly become covered in medpacks during a large battle, which is frustrating for the marine commander, who is trying to place the medpacks on needy marines, frustrating for the marines who often die with a medpack just out of reach/vision, and frustrating for the aliens, who must attempt to take on an enemy commander who is willing to spend 30 team-res to ensure his teams survival in the fight, by spam-dropping medpacks over the room.

I believe a short (2 second?) cooldown would prevent abuse by spamming them across a room, and help balance the lategame when resources are plentiful. In addition to this, the targetting would ensure that the commander is able to keep his cool and precisely heal who needs it, when they need it.

If the targetted element or cooldown element are too powerful/weak, it is a simple matter of scaling the heal/cooldown/cost of the ability until it is balanced.
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Jackson Jul 9, 2014 @ 8:04am 
There used to be a cooldown on medpack dropping. But now the cooldown is on when marines can pick up medpacks (the commander can drop how many medpacks he wants, one marine can only pick up a medpack every 0.3sec).
So there ACTUALLY is a cooldown, even though you didn't notice.
Then, medpacking is a core mechanics of marines gameplay, and the whole NS2 gameplay in general.
I sometimes saw people complaining about this. I'll tell you what I think of this : they're only people complaining because they can't kill a marine. I'm not trying to offend you, sorry if you feel like that.
Now, about medpacking. Medpacking is keeping your key elements (marines) alive, they're the most valuable thing on the field. Ofc a marine commander wants them to stay alive.
Medspamming is a tactic that is used for two reasons : either you want to give an edge to a marine facing a lifeforms that he can kill (because a lifeform facing one solo marine is often very greedy and won't disengage until he's dead, it will take much more risks and that's when you can lure him and trap him to its death), or you want a marine to stay alive because he's holding a key position (a chokepoint) that you really don't want to lose (because then a path will be open to your 2 extractors and you'll lose them...). So it's perfectly fine.
But medspamming has its flaws : dropping 10 TRes twice in early game on medspamming costs as much as Weapon 1, or Shotguns, or 2 extractors ... so they are TRes that aren't spent on tech. You know what this means? a Lerk or a skulk that makes a marine com medspam, even though it lost the fight won the engagement in a kind of way, because it directly attcked the economy, which is more valuable that just killing a marine.
Medspamming is risky, and often it's a "good thing" for aliens. Don't complain about it.
Now, for commanders who drop medpacks everywhere around the floor... it's stupid. Sometime marines don't even bother to walk 3m back to take a medpack and you expect them to take them in a room full of aliens? No, just drop them on their heads, try to keep up with the rythm of aliens attacks (you drop a medpack like 0.1sec after a marine is bitten or swiped), it's like a clock ticking. Making a carpet of medpacks is silly, because they're not efficient and you waste res.

- There's already a cooldown on medpacks
- Medpsamming is good for aliens
- Coms who drop too many medpacks are stupid (as well as those who don't drop enough)
- Stop complaining about medpacks if you can't kill a marine that's because you're too slow, and go bite some extractors
Last edited by Jackson; Jul 9, 2014 @ 8:05am
CORR0S1VE Jul 9, 2014 @ 12:54pm 
Let us assume, please, for the duration of my post that we are dealing with a server populated with no more than 12 players. This is a frequent situation, and the most problematic one. I have little quarrel with 24 player servers.

Firstly, it can be said that a 0.3 second cooldown on picking up a medpack is irrelevant, as even a Fade is not capable of killing a marine that is healing at 167 hp a second.

The fact remains that on smaller servers of 5v5 and the like, there are always 2 or more different directions that must be defended or expanded, meaning that pairs of skulks are the only option.

As for the cost of resources, we are looking not at "units lost" as the result of combat, but instead the concept of "ground lost". Losing ground, means that the marine will advance forward, gaining territory, destroying cysts, and crippiling harvesters. Paying the price of, say, 5 TRES to keep a marine alive against 2 skulks means the destruction of buildings worth many times this amount, and the forward momentum gained, that would otherwise have been reversed. The Alien Commander will withhold expansions in that direction, while the Marine Commander will press forward, taking resources for the team.

You seem to completely disregard the vulnerability of the alien structural chain, which is solely dependant upon cysts. A lost battle means the cyst chain will be broken. A wise marine will advance aggressively, targetting several cysts, before doubling back to finish off the already dying resource node(s). They have nothing to fear from whips or base defence, as whips do not deal enough damage to come anywhere close to killing a marine, taking a full 8 seconds to deal lethal damage, during which time a marine can easily reposition out of its range, and get a few heals. The aliens, on the other hand, are rarely able to overcome a sentry turret set up, preventing them from getting behind the lines.

The simple fact is that in the situation where a server is sparsely populated (~5v5 and 2 commanders), the only hope for the Alien team is winning these 1v1 and 2v2 encounters, which remain nearly impossible with the current implementation.

The only reason it is balanced on bigger servers is because the commander is distracted by more events. God knows that it would be impossible to win as aliens if there was an AI commander, as every marine would be healed instantly.
Hobocop Jul 9, 2014 @ 6:45pm 
Except for the part where the cooldown is not irrelevant, as it's actually 0.54 seconds. Single skulks can and will kill marines being medspammed by themselves, as they bite every 0.5 seconds and marines can't outheal the skulk's DPS assuming the skulks are actually decent and are capable of landing two consecutive bites (and they will be decent, because we're talking 6v6 games here. People who are not at least decent probably don't play 6v6.)

Aliens don't have to play 1v1 and 2v2 encounters, because they have faster map mobility than the marines. They can easily play the numbers advantage in their favor and still be able to heal up at a forward crag or at the hive and be on their way to another part of the map. Additionally, if marines are actually in a position where they can freely spam meds early game, the aliens aren't doing their jobs harassing RTs with their superior mobility. You're also disregarding drifter support abilities, which are highly efficient when used properly, since they effect everything in an AoE for their TRES cost.

Changing medpacks to a longer cooldown would make them virtually useless in combat without corresponding changes elsewhere. The direct targetting nonsense won't make any difference, because good commanders (if we're talking 6v6) actually know how to aim medpack drops.

This is the changelog to the NS2 Competitive Mod, a balance mod designed with feedback from top competitive players aimed at fixing some of the game's most glaring balance issues in 6v6 competitive play. It's availabe on the workshop as CompMod.

You'll notice that there's no mention of medpacks anywhere in the entire document. Which implies that medpacks and their current cooldown and functionality are not seen as an issue.
Last edited by Hobocop; Jul 9, 2014 @ 7:06pm
Meds are fine.
Med kits is fine bro , adjust your FOV to 20 and set mouse in-game to 5.0

Then your bites will be better through trainning
CORR0S1VE Jul 10, 2014 @ 10:17pm 
Well, I don't really play on the ground much. I'm almost exclusively a commander for the Aliens.
Jackson Jul 15, 2014 @ 1:01pm 
Medpacks arent an issue. And as said before in lower populated servers, if you can't win 1v1 or 2v2, play elusive and don't fight the marines.
Attack directly their RTs while avoiding the fights, and when they come to defend, use your speed to escape and bite another one, make them run around, being useless. If you don't stop them, they'll ultimately come and destroy your natural harvesters, and that's why you will have to place a crag and a whip there, as well as at least three cysts around the RT. Why?
Because 2 marines can't outdamage a crag as 5 marines would. If you play on populated servers, go for upgrades and trust your aliens to defend, place structures to help gorges. But if you're on lower pupolated servers, PvE is just fine. When marines come to destroy your RT they'll target the whip and crag first, giving time to aliens to respond to the threat and make an alien-friendly environment (esaier to fight close to a crag).
Remember that "pro" NS2 is played with 6v6 games, so actually this is where the game is the most balanced, on 12 to 16 slots servers. 24 slots is stupid as♥♥♥♥♥♥
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Date Posted: Jul 9, 2014 @ 5:01am
Posts: 7