Natural Selection 2

Natural Selection 2

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Timpster Jul 24, 2014 @ 11:48am
Why is there no friendly fire?
All I see is humans jet-packing around spamming grenade launchers! Please add friendly fire, since they barely take any damage from their own grenades anyways, they practically jump around on the stuff
Last edited by Timpster; Jul 24, 2014 @ 12:09pm
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Showing 1-15 of 31 comments
Warforce17 Jul 24, 2014 @ 3:21pm 
On servers with comp mod enabled ff exists.
Last edited by Warforce17; Jul 24, 2014 @ 3:21pm
Timpster Jul 24, 2014 @ 3:36pm 
Originally posted by Warforce17:

Never seen one in my life. But what did the devs think when they made the spam spacebar & toss grenades at your feet the most valid strategy ever in the game? Also ♥♥♥♥ that jetpack, makes anything other than the Lerk useful in any way. (as noted below, a leaping Skulk/Fade is also useful)
Last edited by Timpster; Jul 25, 2014 @ 5:29am
Jackson Jul 24, 2014 @ 3:41pm 
There is 30% friendly fire in competitive NS2 (6v6). But do you seriously want friendly fire on pub servers? I don't think so.
Skulk who spam leftclick would kill you while you bite an RT or waste your low-life lifeform trying to escape a fight, or you will take countless shots in the back because marines don't know how to shoot. Moreover, you will shoot the♥♥♥♥♥of all the marines who will block your LOS because they don't care about their positions, and trust me, you don't want your wep 3 shotgun comrad to shoot you in a big fight because he thought you were a fade.

FF is ok for 6v6 games, I even played a game when it was used as an actual tactic (no♥♥♥♥♥♥ it was brilliant)... but dont put FF on 24 slots servers filled with newbies, it would be devastating (especially with the GLs since people just spam grenades all over the place without thinking).

PS: and you DO take larger ammount of damage inflicted by your own explosives than with FF. IDK how much but it must be around 50%.
PS2: a few shots in the♥♥♥♥♥can sometimes make a huge difference, especially in early game for marines.
Timpster Jul 24, 2014 @ 4:00pm 
Well, if we had ff to begin with, maybe people wouldn't spam their grenades everywhere. I'd rather have them kill their own entire team than put up with more of that dreadful jump-dancing you have to do 24/7 to either get close to a human or to blast aliens with...more grenades!

So yeah, I'd probably enjoy getting teamkilled rather than have more jumpfests. Now I remember why I stopped playing... damnit XD
Last edited by Timpster; Jul 24, 2014 @ 4:03pm
Jackson Jul 24, 2014 @ 4:37pm 
Jumpfest has nothing to do with FF... I don't get your point.
And then, I can't be sure of that, but I expect the devs to have tried the FF in the early stages of the vanilla. If they didn't put it in, that's because they saw a good reason for that, I guess.
Anyway, trust your fellow veteran comrades, the game is already difficult without FF, and we dont need this make more newcomers quit.
Timpster Jul 24, 2014 @ 5:33pm 
You are right, jumpfest has nothing to do with the ff. Jumpfest with grenades & grenade launchers: Now that's a jumpfest with ff involved. I just don't like the fact that when you are trying to defend an alien base late game, all you get is the entire enemy team running around being untouchable with their jetpacks, or running around in circles grenading all the poor noob skulks chasing them. All I can do is sit & watch it all happen. There's a reason marines is favored over aliens ;)
Last edited by Timpster; Jul 24, 2014 @ 5:33pm
Hobocop Jul 24, 2014 @ 6:00pm 
So...marines have tech? Where's yours? Where's your spurs? Where are the Leap skulks? Spore Lerks? Fades? Where are the backdoor gorge bilerushes to force beacons?

If the entire marine team is running around with JPs, and you just have skulks with no leap, it means you got beat. They won the earlier engagements and got the money to have their fancy toys while denying you yours.
Last edited by Hobocop; Jul 24, 2014 @ 6:04pm
Jackson Jul 24, 2014 @ 7:27pm 

- if you get out-tech in the late game it's because you screwed up before in early and mid, and you're already screwed anyway
- if you want to win, get an economy running and ruin the enemy team's economy
- no team is overpowered
- jumping is a core mechanic of the game and is an acceptable way to dodge
- FF isn't the answer to GLfest

This game has some kind of balance made with some tech elements and their counter or counter parts on the opposite side (skulks beat A0-W0 marines, A1-W1 marines beat skulks, Lerks beat LMG marines, shotguns beat Lerks / Fades / skulks, jetpaks beat Onos, Xenocide beat Jetpacks...). All the purpose is to beat the enemy on one front earlier in the game so you can unlock new techs before the enemy gets its counter part or a better tech, this way there is always one team that has the tech advantage over the other (what we call "out-tech").
So now that you are aware of that, the "balance" IG is made by both teams. If one team out-tech the other, it's because they play better overall. So if you play better, if you keep your economy running, yes you have nice things (jetpacks or onos and spores or xenocide).
If the alien team only has skulks and the marines have JP/GL in late game (they're out-tech) that's because at some point earlier in the game marines already won, and the game is giving them the edge in order to finish aliens off more easily. Now all that the aliens have to do is try to come up with a funny strategy or do desperate things or whatever, they're kinda screwed already.
I'd say you can see the same on the other side, when you see fades at 7 minutes, onos at 13 minutes, and that marines only have A1-W1 without shotguns... they got out-tech and they're screwed as well.
Marines aren't overpowered, the game never has been this balanced (talking about the ratio of marines and aliens wins which is around M 45% and A 55%). Marines become better than aliens in the hand of skillful players (that's why we see more marine wins in competitive).
Jumping is a totally OK way of dogeing, and GL is a totally OK weapon as well (its aim is to destroy structures though, but in the hands of a good marine or a spammer it can tear down skulks and kill unfortunate lifeforms).
Last edited by Jackson; Jul 24, 2014 @ 7:32pm
Warforce17 Jul 25, 2014 @ 4:36am 
Jetpacks can be killed with:
Fades, Lerks, Skulk with leap

Furthermore, they cannot be recovered once the JP-Marine is killed so if you keep biting their Res marines will run out of them.

Grenade launchers can be also easily killed by attacking from behind and staying of the floor. I would rather see someone with a GL than a SG to tell the truth because I normally bait 6 grenades and when attack the marine who can only use a Pistol to defend himself.
Last edited by Warforce17; Jul 25, 2014 @ 4:37am
Timpster Jul 25, 2014 @ 5:27am 
I know all this, when I'm commader then leap & stealth are the first things I go for (after getting the Gorge useful) but nobody ever use the leap to their advantage. I've already stated that Lerks is the most valid way to deal with jetpacks, but think realistically, all the noobs just waste their resources on fully upgrading their expendable skulk with carapace, phantom & bloody energy upgrades that go away when they get instakilled (it sucks but it looks quite hilarious in the chat sometimes XD) instead of getting late game stuff. I still feel like people pick marines more (for obvbious reasons), & I almost never play marines because of this. Never said that jumpfest wasn't a valid manouver but I question why it is a valid manouver. The game looks like it was designed by the easter bunny collaborating with a bunch of adhd kids (just kidding).

All in all, game is much more balanced than it is unbalanced, too little to notice much of a difference, but it is still there, & I feel like fully equal teams, with equally skilled players, the marines would probably win.

Hobocop Jul 25, 2014 @ 5:34am 
Evolving skulks is free. Has been for a long while. I think it's more likely that the people on your team are just bad rather than there being any kind of glaring balance problems.
Goron Jul 25, 2014 @ 6:37am 
There is no denial that GL damage vs lifeforms is too high...
Timpster Jul 25, 2014 @ 7:53am 
I noticed that evolving the skulk is free. Good, it was a long time since I played, so they have likely changed that. It is more balanced now than it used to be, but I still hate the grenade launchers. Mechs-fine. Shotgun-annoying but absolutely fine. Grenade Launcher-Good lucking getting a kill with the skulk when the entire team is standing in a corridor blasting grenades at their own feet.
Hobocop Jul 25, 2014 @ 8:10am 
So the skulks go in, bait the grenade spam, leave, then go back in while they're reloading and can't do anything. I do it all the time.

And again, if people don't spend their res to get higher lifeforms that are better able to deal with grenade spam, it's their own damn fault.

Or people could actually do something super crazy and like...go around the grenade spam and attack important tech structures instead of getting killfarmed. Maybe take out that advanced armory so they can't get anymore GLs? At the very least, you force a beacon and give the team an opportunity to smash whatever forward position they have set up. Oddly enough, killing the other players is not the primary objective of the game. Destroying the main base structure is.
Last edited by Hobocop; Jul 25, 2014 @ 8:11am
SJW shitlord Jul 25, 2014 @ 11:55am 
lol what servers are you playing on where jumpfests are a problem?

In regards to the FF thing, think about it like this:
- You just bought a dual minigun exosuit, you kill an Onos but he gets you down to 50armor
- Some idiot shoots his GL and actually kills you just after you survived that Onos (the idiot has 2 kills, 19 deaths)
- There goes 60Pres, have fun with a rifle waiting 10 minutes to buy something else which could be ruined by another GL tard
- Would you play that game?

If GLs are a problem for you, gtfo scrub servers with terrible players. Go practice and get good at the game and play competitively or go play on higher skilled servers like Heidis, YO or KKG. GLs aren't so prevalent there.

That is the worst system you could possibly implement in a game that relies so heavily on personal resources. The reason why it works on 6v6 is because those players tend to be much better and because there isn't a huge playercount.
Last edited by SJW shitlord; Jul 25, 2014 @ 11:58am
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Date Posted: Jul 24, 2014 @ 11:48am
Posts: 31