Can my army be defeated?

[Stickbear]

I have found Swadian Knights to be a very reliable soldier. And i have only lost once with an army of swadian knights, and i am 900 days in. And i only lost because it was 1000 rhodoks vs 100 swadian knights. Anyways i want to know if my army of 117 swadian knights and 20 swadian sharpshooters could be defeated. If so how?

[Tuidjy]

In a siege, Nord Huscarls are better on the offensive, and Rhodock Sharpshooters are better on the defensive. Vaegir Marksmen led by a combat oriented player character and backed up by well equipped companions will also do better.

On the field, against armies led by the AI? Numbers may defeat you, and you may have trouble if you fight good infantry in hilly terrain. Otherwise, no, when the numbers are relatively similar, Swadian Knights prevail, as long the battle takes place in relatively open terrain.

Which does not mean that they are the most cost effective army, of course. A good vassal can do just fine leading nothing but knights, but even in Native, if you want to unite Calradia under yourself, Swadian Knights alone will not make things all that easy.

The more mods care about balance, the less affordable heavy cavalry becomes. It is still unmatched in the open field, but realistically, it is too expensive to mass.

[Phoenix VII]

Even in Native, if a similar-sized army of Nord Huscarls standing on the edge of a mountain cliff or on top of a steep enough hill and are ordered to stand closer 3 times, the Swadian Knights won't be able to maintain enough speed for their couched lance charge, be forced into melee, and get wrecked. I think but am not sure that 117 Rhodok Sergeants (and 20 Rhodok Sharpshooters) would also win due their military hammers that ignore some of the Knights' armor. Unfortunately, the AI is rather basic in Native, and even in mods with more complex formation AI, I don't think the AI can account for terrain so you don't ever have to worry about a Nord or Rhodok AI trying to use these sort of tactics against your cavalry.

[Init]

up the ai in the options menu it will make the enemy better and your own as well. you can edit the battle size in the actual file to go larger be carfull though I ussually put it at two your computer may be able to do better; this will mean if you are very outnumbered you may get overwealmed even with medium level troops. if its the challenge that you miss or something you could keep recicling your troops so you will have low level troops but your fortifications are good and high level and so they dont get unmanagable financially(if you have diplomacy mod) you can send troops to other commanbers fortifications that are lacking.

[Morkonan]

Originally posted by (BR) Jacobo:

... Anyways i want to know if my army of 117 swadian knights and 20 swadian sharpshooters could be defeated. If so how?

Yes.

Numbers, for one. Eventually, even your knights will succumb to accumulated blows. A couple of stacks or one big stack from a King could defeat you, though they would pay a high cost. If you have low medical skills, many wounded knights won't be able to return to battle if, for instance, you're engaged with a large army, or multiple armies, and are going through "rounds" of combat. In that sort of situation, you may have a great Surgery skill, which keeps yoru men from dying in combat, but that may not be able to allow you to keep a sufficient number of your knights ready to fight for the next round. In this way, you could theoretically lose a large, multi-round, battle without losing the life of one of your knights. Strange, but true. (I think the cutoff is 30% and if a unit has a health below that, they will not participate in the next round/battle. Can't remember, atm.)

Terrain can defeat you, as well. In the mountains, your knights could be overwhelmed. (Pikemen and Spearmen are terrifying for mounted units fighting in mountainous terrain...) In heavy forest, they could also be sorely pressed. If they got stuck in one of the numerous battlefields with deep revines, they could get chewed up quite badly.

If, however, you or a Companion have extremely good medical skills, these situations become a bit less dire.

An army of heavy cavalry, with good support from Player or Companion medical skills, is truly virtually unbeatable. But, it's not omnipotent and your mistakes or just the tides of war could act to defeat it. Any situation that minimizes your advantage and gives the enemy one can mean trouble for you, even with a hundred Swadian Knights. However, i you can keep them from being killed and can heal them quickly, you should have one of the strongest armies on the map.

[Stickbear]

Originally posted by Morkonan:

Originally posted by (BR) Jacobo:

... Anyways i want to know if my army of 117 swadian knights and 20 swadian sharpshooters could be defeated. If so how?

Yes.

Numbers, for one. Eventually, even your knights will succumb to accumulated blows. A couple of stacks or one big stack from a King could defeat you, though they would pay a high cost. If you have low medical skills, many wounded knights won't be able to return to battle if, for instance, you're engaged with a large army, or multiple armies, and are going through "rounds" of combat. In that sort of situation, you may have a great Surgery skill, which keeps yoru men from dying in combat, but that may not be able to allow you to keep a sufficient number of your knights ready to fight for the next round. In this way, you could theoretically lose a large, multi-round, battle without losing the life of one of your knights. Strange, but true. (I think the cutoff is 30% and if a unit has a health below that, they will not participate in the next round/battle. Can't remember, atm.)

Terrain can defeat you, as well. In the mountains, your knights could be overwhelmed. (Pikemen and Spearmen are terrifying for mounted units fighting in mountainous terrain...) In heavy forest, they could also be sorely pressed. If they got stuck in one of the numerous battlefields with deep revines, they could get chewed up quite badly.

If, however, you or a Companion have extremely good medical skills, these situations become a bit less dire.

An army of heavy cavalry, with good support from Player or Companion medical skills, is truly virtually unbeatable. But, it's not omnipotent and your mistakes or just the tides of war could act to defeat it. Any situation that minimizes your advantage and gives the enemy one can mean trouble for you, even with a hundred Swadian Knights. However, i you can keep them from being killed and can heal them quickly, you should have one of the strongest armies on the map.

Really usefull information thanks

[Morkonan]

You're welcome!

Take heart, though - A Player with a large mounted Army with a very high number of heavy horse is, truly, virtually unbeatable on a battlefield in Warband.

However, the game doesn't care about battlefields....

The game only cares if you can take and hold Castles and Towns. That's it. That's all it cares about. If you can't hold what you win or if you give what you win to Lords that rebel or you become so spread out that you can't defend what you win from your enemies, you can't win the game, no matter how great your own Army is. :)

So, enjoy the supremacy of an army of heavy horse, but in order to win the game, you're going to need much more than that.

[Stickbear]

Originally posted by Morkonan:

You're welcome!

Take heart, though - A Player with a large mounted Army with a very high number of heavy horse is, truly, virtually unbeatable on a battlefield in Warband.

However, the game doesn't care about battlefields....

The game only cares if you can take and hold Castles and Towns. That's it. That's all it cares about. If you can't hold what you win or if you give what you win to Lords that rebel or you become so spread out that you can't defend what you win from your enemies, you can't win the game, no matter how great your own Army is. :)

So, enjoy the supremacy of an army of heavy horse, but in order to win the game, you're going to need much more than that.

My kingdom is very prosperous wit 81 centers and 29 vassals but is there a way to insure that my other vassals armys are up to par?

[Sigmar's Faithful]

If we just assume you'd maintain your army forever, I'd say you have a high odds of defeat going up in Rhodok terroritory. It takes a bit of (bad) luck, but when a lord holds ground on up of a mountain, and the only way you can get to him is by walking your knights off a cliff and then walk them up another, odds are half of your knights would be dead/wounded by the time you and your soldiers can even fight back.

[azxcvbnm321]

Why would he ever fight in mountain terrain? The answer is no on the field, but yes in sieges. The vanilla game and most mods are too easy because there's a lack of cavalry given to the AI and a lack of high tier troops. I suggest getting Prophecy of Pendor if you want a great mod with great gameplay balance. Warning though, it's for experienced players, meaning that it will be hard for those who haven't mastered all the tricks of combat. It'll keep you challenged for longer than any other mod.

[Sigmar's Faithful]

Originally posted by azxcvbnm321:

Why would he ever fight in mountain terrain? The answer is no on the field, but yes in sieges. The vanilla game and most mods are too easy because there's a lack of cavalry given to the AI and a lack of high tier troops. I suggest getting Prophecy of Pendor if you want a great mod with great gameplay balance. Warning though, it's for experienced players, meaning that it will be hard for those who haven't mastered all the tricks of combat. It'll keep you challenged for longer than any other mod.

Because he might want to conquer Rhodok? Also any fight near Praven will has a lot of cliff in it. He'd most likely steam roll any other kingdoms, but to conquer Rhodok he would still have to go there.

[A Steeming Pile of Profile]

Turn off half damage.

[Morkonan]

Originally posted by (BR) Jacobo:

...My kingdom is very prosperous wit 81 centers and 29 vassals but is there a way to insure that my other vassals armys are up to par?

Up to a certain limit, you can give your vassals troops. This is best done when you first accept them as a vassal, as they usually rapidly fill their ranks up to their current support limit. After they hit their support limit, they will refuse additional troops. You can do the same with their castles/towns, too, but you won't get a reputation bonus with the Lord in that case, IIRC. (When a Lord accepts troops from you, you can get a signifcant relationship boost, depending upon the number of units you are able to give them. This is a great way to get a very good relationship boost when you first accept a Lord as a vassal, so always try to have a few men ready to give them when you do this.)

There are two things that you can do for your vassals that help a great deal. The first is to assign them fiefs that are close to each other. You don't want them having to travel a far distance in order to manage their fiefs. Keep their awarded fiefs in a central location, so they can remain in relatively the same area while they manage their holdings.

The second thing you can do is to award them enough fiefs to field an army of the size you want them to have. However, be careful - You only want to make strong Lords out of very loyal vassals with high honor ratings. You're not trying to create military rivals, but trying to create military allies that will defend the kingdom and follow your orders.

For these reasons, most players, even players with many fiefs, limit the number of powerful vassal Lords to around three or so. They give these three the lion's share of fiefs, keeping them well centralized, and call upon these very loyal Lords the most when they take the battle to the enemy. In that way, they can be assured of particularly loyal Lords coming to the fight with hundreds of retainers, instead of a shoebox full of hedge-knights showing up with a handful of units each and with the majority chickening out before a significant battle...

However, in just about any game, you and your personal army are likely going to be the most significant force on any battlefield or in any war. It's generally advised that you personally take the battle to the enemy and let your Lords protect your holdings for most of the duration of any war. Lords will, on their own, venture into enemy territory for a time, just as long as they feel their fiefs are safe or the plunder might be particularly good. (Their behavior is also somewhat dictated by their random starting attributes, IIRC.)

Note: Kill bandits wherever you find them and destroy any bandit camp in your lands that you find. You don't want your Lords trying to chase down bandits instead of enemy forces.

[Tropicdepression]

I've taken 150 Swadians with 50 Nords and maybe a few Rhodoks, All Nordic Warriors, no Huscarls, respectively, there were few knights, but as I progressed through the campaign, every time I fight a noble with any knights, they, if they make if past my archers, typically don't do much damage, especially since my men carry javelins and/or throwing axes.

[kaiyl_kariashi]

Oh...and if you haven't already....remove the handicap in the option menus. If you've never touched it, by default your character takes 25% of normal damage and your army takes 50% normal damage, which makes heavy armored troops SIGNIFICANTLY stronger then they should be, because the reduction is applied before armor calculations, as opposed to after armor calculations, which means that attacks that SHOULD be a threat will end up just tickling you.

Fighting without the handicap, Swadian KNights are still good, but the casuality rate skyrockets and make them less efficient due to their long training times and replacement costs.

[Stickbear]

Cool thanks for all the feedback guys some really good information.