Clickr > General Discussions > Topic Details
Shiro Feb 13, 2014 @ 12:11pm
Why are people tagging this as "Casual"?
Yes, it's a puzzle game, but anyone who's played it should know that it has a very steep learning curve that kicks-in very quickly. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, mind, but I think that people buying the game based on the "Casual" tag will be very quickly turned-off when they find out just how difficult this game gets at very early stages. Meanwhile, people specifically looking for a hard puzzle game will pass it up.

In short, we need more people tagging this game as "Hardcore" or "Difficult". "Casual" is the polar opposite of what this game offers.
Showing 1-9 of 9 comments
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CtrlAltDestroy Feb 14, 2014 @ 1:27am 
Some people think puzzle games are automatically casual games. Obviously, they are people who have never played SpaceChem or Clickr.

I think Steam just introduced downvoting / flagging tags, so we can do that now.
Shiro Feb 14, 2014 @ 11:35am 
I can get behind downvoting as a thing. I noticed that some games had a lot of troll-worthy tags on them.
Syragar Mar 26, 2014 @ 5:27pm 
I'm glad I found this thread. Now I'm more interested in this game. I love SpaceChem! For reasons like this, I agree with "downvoting" user tags.
marcus_iscariat Mar 30, 2014 @ 5:15am 
Yeah some levels are easy as and others are absolutely brutal
Locke May 17, 2014 @ 10:13am 
Casual does not mean easy, nor does hardcore mean difficult. Casual means that the game is easy to get into and appeals to a wide audience, whereas hardcore games are more daunting and appeal to more serious gamers. I haven't played it very long yet, but though I see the possibility for depth and difficulty, especially for getting higher ratings, I would not brand the game as especially complex or hostile to those who aren't "gamers."
Shiro May 17, 2014 @ 2:06pm 
Originally posted by Locke:
Casual does not mean easy, nor does hardcore mean difficult.
Well that certainly is a matter of debate, and there doesn't seem to be any definition of "casual" that applies specifically to gaming.

Casual means that the game is easy to get into and appeals to a wide audience, whereas hardcore games are more daunting and appeal to more serious gamers.
Okay, I'll grant you that first one, certainly a casual game is going to be one that easy to get into, however there's you defining "casual" by using the very word you said that does not apply to it: easy. Moving on though, I would disagree with the second part. A game (or anything) that appeals to a wide audience would be better defined as "mainstream".

As for your definition of hardcore, I would agree, and then point-out that Clickr gets very hard, very fast. Granted that it's been a while since I've played it now, but I probably barely cleared 10% of the content before it started getting very difficult, and barely to 20% before slamming into a brick wall that I would need to scale in order to proceed. It's just not a game you can pick up and play on a casual basis. It's a game that requires you to pick-out complex patterns very quickly, and then just as quickly be able to implement the plan of action.

Again, mind that I'm not saying this makes it a bad game. I'm just saying that players looking for a casual experience (something you can just kinda play without needing to get "into" it) are going to be turned-off rather quickly when they find how quickly the game gets very difficult.
Locke May 17, 2014 @ 2:53pm 
Originally posted by Shiro:
Well that certainly is a matter of debate, and there doesn't seem to be any definition of "casual" that applies specifically to gaming.
If casual and hardcore just mean easy and hard, there's little point for them to exist considering the words easy and hard already exist.

Originally posted by Shiro:
however there's you defining "casual" by using the very word you said that does not apply to it: easy.
"Easy to get into" and "easy" are not the same thing. Easy modifies "get into," whereas easy by itself is referring to the difficulty of the game. I am not referring at all to difficulty, but to how fast one can understand the mechanics. A game like Tetris is easy to get into. You can understand the building blocks of the game (heh) in seconds, there's only a few buttons and anyone can just pick it up and play. By contrast a game like Monster Hunter is hard to get into. There are a variety of mechanics to learn and timing is essential. Practice is required before you can even begin to understand it, and each weapon and monster are going to need to be learned separately. Tetris is an "easy to learn, hard to master" kind of game, and Monster Hunter is not. This does not make Tetris easy; building combos and getting a high score, especially as the levels progress and the game gets faster, takes a fair amount of skill and planning. This is the difference between "easy" and "easy to get into."

Originally posted by Shiro:
A game (or anything) that appeals to a wide audience would be better defined as "mainstream".
Mainstream is closer to "popular" than "casual." Call of Duty is mainstream, games like Clickr are not.

Originally posted by Shiro:
As for your definition of hardcore, I would agree, and then point-out that Clickr gets very hard, very fast. Granted that it's been a while since I've played it now, but I probably barely cleared 10% of the content before it started getting very difficult, and barely to 20% before slamming into a brick wall that I would need to scale in order to proceed. It's just not a game you can pick up and play on a casual basis. It's a game that requires you to pick-out complex patterns very quickly, and then just as quickly be able to implement the plan of action.
You say you agree, and then...go into great lengths about how hard the game is? A game can be hard and casual. Tetris, as I've already mentioned, fits nicely into that category. Clickr, so far at least, feels very easy to pick up and play, but to do well is going to require skill. There are only a few mechanics to learn, but how you use them and the way they interact lends a degree of difficulty to the game. Games can be hardcore and easy as well. Bioshock definitely appeals more to hardcore gamers than their grandmothers, but it's known for being relatively easy as well.

Originally posted by Shiro:
Again, mind that I'm not saying this makes it a bad game. I'm just saying that players looking for a casual experience (something you can just kinda play without needing to get "into" it) are going to be turned-off rather quickly when they find how quickly the game gets very difficult.
I came to this game looking for more of a casual experience, and I can't say I've been turned off by the difficulty yet.
Last edited by Locke; May 17, 2014 @ 4:37pm
Shiro May 17, 2014 @ 4:33pm 
Originally posted by Locke:
Originally posted by Shiro:
Well that certainly is a matter of debate, and there doesn't seem to be any definition of "casual" that applies specifically to gaming.
If they casual and hardcore just mean easy and hard, there's little point for them to exist considering the words easy and hard already exist.
Well then ♥♥♥♥, I guess that roughly half of the English language has little point in existing. This isn't to say that "casual" and "hardcore" are just alternate words for "easy" and "hard", but they're cousins at the very least.

Originally posted by Shiro:
A game (or anything) that appeals to a wide audience would be better defined as "mainstream".
Mainstream is closer to "popular" than "casual." Call of Duty is mainstream, games like Clickr are not.
Um... yes, that's my point. A game being "casual" has nothing to do with the number of people who actually play it, hence why I was disagreeing with your statement that casual games "appeal to a large audience".

Originally posted by Shiro:
As for your definition of hardcore, I would agree, and then point-out that Clickr gets very hard, very fast. Granted that it's been a while since I've played it now, but I probably barely cleared 10% of the content before it started getting very difficult, and barely to 20% before slamming into a brick wall that I would need to scale in order to proceed. It's just not a game you can pick up and play on a casual basis. It's a game that requires you to pick-out complex patterns very quickly, and then just as quickly be able to implement the plan of action.
You say you agree, and then...go into great lengths about how hard the game is? A game can be hard and casual. Tetris, as I've already mentioned, fits nicely into that category. Clickr, so far at least, feels very easy to pick up and play, but to do well is going to require skill. There are only a few mechanics to learn, but how you use them and the way they interact lends a degree of difficulty to the game. Games can be hardcore and easy as well. Bioshock definitely appeals more to hardcore gamers than their grandmothers, but it's known for being relatively easy as well.
Tetris is a rare case of a game that strikes that perfect balance, to the point where it's an exception that doesn't really help either side of the argument. It's worth noting that a person playing Tetris on a hardcore level is going to look very different from a person who only plays it casually. A big part of this is that Tetris has extremely variable rules that basically let you decide how hard of a time you'll have in the game. By contrast, Clickr gives very strict objectives for its main gameplay mode, and meeting those objectives gets very difficult before you're even half-way through with it.
Megaflux May 29, 2014 @ 6:18pm 
locke is right (except about bioshock.. should have used ninja gaiden black as an example or something.. bioshock is as far as i know a pop game that is designed specifically for morons.. theres NOTHING hard core about that). its that simple.

if you can pick it up and play it for 5-10 min with no real commitment its casual. when you HAVE to sink hours and days into a game (for example eve online or most mmo's) its no longer casual. not to say that hard core gamers dont play casual games... or that anyone even make really hard core games (they would have to be designed in such a way that any ♥♥♥♥ couldnt find a youtube video walkthrough), but if you dont hace to commit to the game it is casual.
Last edited by Megaflux; May 29, 2014 @ 6:20pm
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