GRID 2 > General Discussion > Topic Details
Loore  [developer] Apr 23, 2013 @ 3:41pm
With regards to Cockpit view
There's a lot of discussion going on within these boards about cockpit view and how it does not feature in GRID 2. Instead of multiple threads please use this one for all cockpit talk, and as always, please keep it civil.

Many of would have already read our reasons why it was not included but in case you've missed it:

We've heard a lot of your thoughts and opinions regarding the lack of cockpit view in GRID 2. To better explain our decision Executive Producer Clive Moody has this to say.

"First of all, it's important to say that every design decision we make is done with a lot of careful consideration and not taken lightly. We're acutely aware of the love there is for GRID in our community and we want to deliver the best possible experience for everyone.

There seems to be some confusion about where we get our data from to help us make these decisions. While we do use research and focus groups, the most important data source for us is the enormous amount of telemetry data we can obtain from our servers that tells us exactly how and what our players are doing across all our games. So it's not a case of just a sample of people we've spoken to in research, it's a fact that only 5% of Codemasters Racing game players ever used the in-car view.

We certainly don't want to alienate any of our fans we want to deliver truly exciting features that 100% of our players will enjoy. Videogame development is always about trade-offs and in this case, taking the hard decision to lose the in-car views for 5% of our players (and remember we still have bonnet cam and bumper cam, which many people with racing wheels use), is something we felt was more beneficial to everyone. They are expensive to run due to the requirement for high-resolution interior textures which are seen close-up and require a considerable amount of in-game memory (to store) and processing (to render).

What this means in practice is that the benefit to our vehicle models, environment models and the hundreds of other things in the environment sapping memory, is huge. By making this educated call, we can use the extra available memory to make the on-track racing a truly mind-blowingly immersive experience.

For example, we can author and run higher resolution vehicle models with more detailed geometry. We can feature higher resolution external vehicle textures and work further detail into our environment textures. We can dedicate more processing power to our improved physics systems, integral to the GRID 2 experience, and push other systems to the next level, such as particles and real-time lighting. And there are many more benefits.

One final point to make is that we’re at the tail-end of the current console generation. We’re now incredibly familiar with the current hardware and have reached the point that we’re getting EVERYTHING possible from it. We’re dedicated to pushing GRID 2 to the next level, making it the definitive racing game on this generation of hardware. Dropping a lesser-used feature such as interior cam frees up the memory and processing power to push the more prominent systems to the next level is a tough decision but it's one we felt had to be made, for the benefit of the majority of players.

If you’re still not convinced, all I ask is that you wait and see what we've got to show you. We've only scratched the surface of what we've got to show you on GRID 2 - there's lots more to coming in the months to follow and I genuinely think that you'll really enjoy it. Come and see for yourself at Eurogamer Expo.

Executive Producer Clive Moody"
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Olek Apr 23, 2013 @ 4:37pm 
Sure it would be so much better to have a cockpit view but if at the end it's still non-existant but the rest of the game's quality compensates it then it's not a big deal...
Hawkes Apr 23, 2013 @ 4:40pm 
I would like to know where you guys got the 5% number from? i love your racing games but i played mostly offline for most of them including Grid which is one of my favorite racing games so if you got that number from server info from Online races that number isnt going to be accurate.

I understand it frees up more memory so you guys can make it a more "immersive experiance" but without a cockpit view it ruins my immersion for the game im not alone in this as you surely noticed by the many threads on this forum.

Unless theres a demo to help prove that cutting the cockpit view was worth it gameplay wise me and im sure quite a few others arnt going to buy Grid 2 despite waiting years for this sequel.
Last edited by Hawkes; Apr 23, 2013 @ 5:45pm
Blade Runner Apr 23, 2013 @ 5:41pm 
Hey is it me or some of the previous posts discussing this subject got DELETED?
Hawkes Apr 23, 2013 @ 5:43pm 
Originally posted by Blade Runner:
Hey is it me or some of the previous posts discussing this subject got DELETED?
They did and thats becous Loore wants all discusions about the cockpit view to be had here in this thread
la_nague Apr 23, 2013 @ 5:52pm 
...and how many played online compared to offline? I bet its around 5%, maybe less.

So the data on view use is meaningless since it only covers a specific small group, the competetive online racer.
There are a lot of other groups that play the game completely differently and offline.


GRID was popular because of its cross between arcade and simulation. Now the lack of cockpit view makes me think that you went with the "simpify for console gamers" way of making games, which means full arcade gameplay. So with that you lost me, even though i never used the view.
Mantis Apr 23, 2013 @ 6:34pm 
I don't think I played GRID once online, and I used the cockpit view for every race except drifting.

Can't say I'm that interested in this game anymore, but I understand wanting better geometry and textures for other things.
MetCout Apr 23, 2013 @ 6:39pm 
No cockpit view = no buy for me, sry but this is disapointing, man it's a racing game... I always use cockpit view in any racing game i play, this is one of the crucial point of immersion, i really don't understand your point of view, maybe on console, OK, anyway console is piece ** ****, but on PC, save memory ?? Come on, at least put an option to activate or disable it, ah, no its too long.. it will probably be a simple PC Port ...
Thanks
Biggranny Apr 23, 2013 @ 7:21pm 
Racing is not about cockpit view, it's about the quality of the racing game. I don't mind Cockpit view, it's only a minor feature. The game looks great and keep up the good work. I love all cameras anyway.
Aussiedroid Apr 23, 2013 @ 7:45pm 
Hope there is still the 'nose' view showing the front end of the car and first person view without any hud. If its only 3rd person I will cry :p
maiconimortal Apr 23, 2013 @ 9:46pm 
Means that 5% really know playing a racing game and the other 95% just want graphics. hahahahahaha joke

Why would I use my G27 in a game like this, or better, why I would buy such a game like this if I not have a decent camera to play?
Last edited by maiconimortal; Apr 23, 2013 @ 9:47pm
Night-Phaser Apr 23, 2013 @ 9:54pm 
So given that i have posted on 2 threads and one looks to have been removed already. since it had like 50 post in a day about cockpit view. your 5% stats of players playing in cockpit view are very exaggerated. been gaming for 25 years and played many racing games with many people. most of which only use the cockpit view. so heres the truth most console usesrs use a joypad and this is a port to the pc so basied on that the pc suffers on the stats. To max your profits and cut cost you have gone console to pc port. i dont like and are very agaisnt this for many reasons the first being trying to damage control by useing a low stat to isolate games that use this cockpit view. if its such a low stat why are so many people complaining and have incressed over time. also deleting a post that seem to have alot of people complining that its not in the game after just one day ( might be steam but unlikly and if asked the response would be on the lines of - we removed that thread so poeple could post in just one thread - also help that 50 coments where removed). In truth I can see that due to the limits of consoles right now you have cut corners and the cockpit view is one of them and to minimize players complaining about this the 5% stat also helps control this. what you fail to see is what devs belive to be ok these days. They should not be saying to there pc fans well in order to put time into this game we cut out a feature to make it look pretty for the console users. If you are unable to spend time and money into the surposed upgraded brand new version of the first grid. then look for other means before you start down this road. one that comes to mind is kickstarter. please do not fob off your pc fans and new player base by say we made gird 2 for the consoles and becouse we are limited to them this is the result. A pc can handle a hell of alot more than any console now or even the news consoles comming out.

To everyone saying this game dose not have cockpit so what i dont use it. I say please look at the others that do use it and there is alot. telling any dev that a console to pc port that is limited to a console that came out 7 years ago is a good thing is not right. Other devs from other companys look at each other see what they can do to cut cornors and max profits. One day there might be a time when you want to play a cockpit view but 90% of the games out in the future dont have one becouse its cheaper to make a game without and costs the same.

last of all this is to the devs - graphics are important to a racing game. it takes you into a game and makes it feel as your in the action but dont take away or sacrifice the other elements of a game that breaks that experience (cockpits). Cuting cost to max your profits is never the way forward and telling pc gamers that yet anther game has been limited by a console.

It sads me on principal. i do owen a G27 but raced before i even had a stearing wheel and still used cockpit view. I apologize if thees any spelling mistakes I am Dyslexic.
Last edited by Night-Phaser; Apr 23, 2013 @ 10:00pm
Blade Runner Apr 23, 2013 @ 9:57pm 
I would state my reasons for wanting cockpit view, but since I already did in previous posts and those were deleted I don't want to risk being censored again. Nice going Codemasters.
Last edited by Blade Runner; Apr 23, 2013 @ 9:58pm
Hellzilla Apr 23, 2013 @ 10:07pm 
Where does the 5% figure really come from? I could never play Grid online because the servers were closed. Have been for years. (I did it with Tunngle one night--could never find another game going on there--but I don't think Codemasters can track games not run on those types of things).

Anyways, Grid was the game that made me love in-car view. I didn't think I would like it at all. I remember always wanting to see my car in Gran Turismo. But once I started using cockpit view in Grid, next thing I know I keep switching to cockpit view in any game that has it, especially after I got a racing wheel. Only thing I like better is the camera bar view in the F1 games. (The Formula 3 cars in Grid were really fun with cockpit view).

I drive better with in-car view, and it feels like a giant step backward when I play third-person view. I've never liked bonnet cam. Bumper cam is a little better--but I just use it sometimes because it can be a really cool view and seems like a greater sense of speed.

I was excited about Grid 2 up through the first announcement teaser, but I feel like the lack of cockpit view has curbed my enthusiasm this whole time. I have not been planning to buy it. Maybe I will be among 5% who won't buy the game because of no in-car view.

But, I will fire up the original Grid again and give the other camera views a good number of test laps, and see if I think it's not such a downgrade. If I can live without cockpit view in Grid, I will be looking forward to the new circuits and trying to find a decent multiplayer game.
Loore  [developer] Apr 23, 2013 @ 11:30pm 
The data comes from our past games, it's taken from both offline and online single player modes.

We understand you may feel like it breaks your immersion, we totally get that but we're confident that once you get your hands on the game our reasoning will become clear.

Having resources available to run our physics engine at 1000 hertz is huge, dynamic AI and so forth, we're looking forward to seeing what you think once you've taken it for a few laps.

There will be a bonnet cam in GRID 2.
woof Apr 24, 2013 @ 12:38am 
Cross over your heart, and tell us directly the true reasons why CM removed cockpit view. 5 bucks says we won't be surprised.
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Date Posted: Apr 23, 2013 @ 3:41pm
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