Team Fortress 2 > Mann vs. Machine > Topic Details
TheNoobishNinja Jan 26, 2013 @ 5:28am
I beat Major Bomber... outside of Mann Up.
Phlogistinator proved it's worth by getting me over 200 kills, and cruicially helping my team fight engineers, scouts, and giants. Anyways, I beat Major Bomber by using uber canteens and Phlog crits, and when I was away I spammed my Manmelter.
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Bishreksual Jan 26, 2013 @ 8:30am 
My opinion, Phlog is the very worst Pyro primary in MvM due to the lack of airblast.
Pernicious Deeds Jan 26, 2013 @ 10:08am 
Originally posted by Tacosaurus:
My opinion, Phlog is the very worst Pyro primary in MvM due to the lack of airblast.

People keep saying that. The way I see it is that changing to the phlog simply alters his role in the team. Now, instead of being a support class helping the team with airblasts, he's a purely damage-oriented role that is simply the very best at this job in that aspect. I <3 the Phlog.

One question: how do you examine stats like # of kills while in a mission?
$@GA【表面張力】 Jan 26, 2013 @ 10:17am 
Originally posted by JoshuaFH:
One question: how do you examine stats like # of kills while in a mission?
Tab for your own and for kills of teammates you need a friend on the server and check his game info.
A Buttflustered Loli Jan 27, 2013 @ 11:50am 
Phlog is OP and unhelpful to your team
solaris32 Jan 27, 2013 @ 11:54am 
Originally posted by Dustbowls Dustiest Dan:
Phlog is OP and unhelpful to your team
It's overpowered yet unhelpful? Aight.
Moog Jan 27, 2013 @ 6:31pm 
Phlog would be okay if you didnt have such a pause whilst you taunt to get crits, as it is that time lost could have been critted by a buff banner with a stock weapon that could airblast and reset the bomb. I have been in games with the phlog and yes we won but then again we would have won anyway even with a stock weapon, to me tanks do not fall to the phlog any quicker than a stock flamer. In normal TF2 game the phlog can be a real asset however in MvM the lost of airblast is not offset by the taunt benfit, not by a long shot
Pernicious Deeds Jan 27, 2013 @ 7:42pm 
Originally posted by Moog:
Phlog would be okay if you didnt have such a pause whilst you taunt to get crits, as it is that time lost could have been critted by a buff banner with a stock weapon that could airblast and reset the bomb. I have been in games with the phlog and yes we won but then again we would have won anyway even with a stock weapon, to me tanks do not fall to the phlog any quicker than a stock flamer. In normal TF2 game the phlog can be a real asset however in MvM the lost of airblast is not offset by the taunt benfit, not by a long shot

? I just don't understand your logic. So you're saying that the stock flamethrower with a buff banner, dealing only an additional 35% damage and consuming the efforts of second team member, can compete with the phlogs 300% extra damage by himself? Right.

The the length of the taunt is insignificant really, maybe one or two seconds, if that. And the damage return for that small bit of time invested is incredible.
Androgynous Jan 28, 2013 @ 12:36am 
Originally posted by Tacosaurus:
My opinion, Phlog is the very worst Pyro primary in MvM due to the lack of airblast.

Wrong. The Backburner is the worst weapon. Airblasts are much too costly, and even with max ammo, you'd have the same number of airblasts as a Stock / Degreaser without ammo upgrades. The Phlog offers the ability to solo tanks, Giants, and super W+M1 crowds of robots, which the Backburner doesn't.

There are scenarios where the airblast is helpful, and there are scenarios where the Phlog is more helpful, such as the beginning of tank waves, where the bomb carrier hasn't arrived, and then it has, you can kill it before it even reaches the reset pit.

I've not VSed Major Bomber before, but I've managed to defeat Sgt Crits, and judging from the stats, Major Bomber seems incredibly easy

Originally posted by Moog:
to me tanks do not fall to the phlog any quicker than a stock flamer.

Most braindead post I ever saw. According to the TF2 Wiki, it takes 2 seconds to Mmmph taunt. And according to the weapon demonstration here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veZwXKXJTi4&feature=player_embedded#! he starts the taunt at 0:40 and has the weapon ready at 0:42, reinforcing this claim.

The duration of Mmmph is 10 seconds, counting the 2s taunt, meaning it's 8 seconds of crits. It takes 225 damage to fill the Mmmph bar, and the damage-per-second without upgrades is 140 per second. Meaning it would take 1.6 seconds for it to fill Mmmph. I'm so confident this is much better for dealing with tanks, I'm going to ~double the time to 3 seconds.

So it takes 3 seconds to fill the Mmmph bar, 2 seconds to taunt, and 8 seconds of crits.
13 seconds
Lets count that exactly 225 damage is dealt to fill Mmmph, the bare minimum
8 seconds of crits with a crit DPS of 418.5 (or 415) is 3320 damage. Add that to the minimum 225, and that's 3545 damage, over 13 seconds.

3545/13 = an average of 272.7 damage-per-second, almost double that of the Stock Flamer which is ~150 per second. With 100% damage bonus , that's around 550 DPS on average.

The strongest tank is the one on Broken Parts with 60k HP. 60k / 550 DPS = 109 seconds or 1 minute 49 seconds. I'm not sure on the exact figures, as to how long it takes for the tank to reach the hatch, but the Phlog could definitely deal 75% of the tank's health on it's own, while the rest of the team dealt with the robots. Couple it with some Demo stickytraps pre-wave, as well as the grace period where there is only the tank and no bomb carriers, allowing the whole team to focus on the tank, I'd say it could be soloed.

Try doing that with Stock Flamer then.
Last edited by Androgynous; Jan 28, 2013 @ 12:52am
jus' Ign@nt Jan 28, 2013 @ 7:07am 
I USED to be in the same thinking that the Pyro should be airblasting.
Trying to beat Broken Parts recently has changed my thinking.
I have no problem working with a Phlog Pyro as long as they know what they're doing.
(Could be said for any class really though right?)

Doing it myself and seeing more Heavies use RAGE seems to cancel out the need for airblasting. Especially when a Giant is carrying the bomb. I have been able to reset the bomb without the need of an airblasting pyro.

At least for Broken Parts -- mark me down on the side of Damage Output over Airblasting.

Of course there will be maps where I will choose Airblasting over Damage but since I'm just thinking of Broken Parts at the moment, Damage it is.
InvisibleWater Jan 28, 2013 @ 7:49am 
I'm mostly desensitized to the issue. Partially because if I had a dollar for every Phlog Pyro on my team, I'd be a zillionaire.
oddtiki Jan 28, 2013 @ 10:40am 
I agree the Phlog simply changes the dynamic of the Pyro. No one else can solo a tank. I also did not believe it until I saw it. Pretty amazing stuff. It allows the rest of the team to concentrate on everything else. The lack or airblast is negligible and a good team can compensate for it. Mix it up I say.
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Date Posted: Jan 26, 2013 @ 5:28am
Posts: 11