Goomy, Master of Dragons Nov 26, 2012 @ 3:26pm
The Dead Ringer...
Doesn't it seem OP? It seems that everyone who mains spy uses this and rarely do i see anyone good with the other watches. I once was actaully called a F2P noob once for using the regular invisi watch! It's kinda sad actually. If you have a reason why you think the Dead Ringer isn't OP feel free to leave a comment below! I'm happy to have a friendly debate.
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TheManInTheFedora Nov 26, 2012 @ 3:37pm 
You're asking for an argument?... wow... Ok, here's something: Dead ringer spies, even if they uncloak right after being hit, lose over half the cloaking time. It also can only be used to turn invisi when it is full, and so you need to get ammo to retain the invisibility. You also have the problem with not being able to use it after it has run out of time, or you have uncloaked and are yet to recieve ammo... it can actually be even more limited than other cloaks.
BlackRayPlayer Nov 26, 2012 @ 4:16pm 
I use the Dead ringer in several different occasions but if I feel that it's not working, I just switch to Cloak & Dagger.
Neferpitou [Log Horizon] Nov 26, 2012 @ 4:20pm 
I've used the Dead Ringer for most of my 400 Spy hours, and I do very well with it. You can't say anything the Spy has is OP, honestly, because he's a generally weak class due to his instant-kill backstabs and Valve being too afraid to give him anything else that's strong.

You could just as easily say the Cloak and Dagger is OP; You can sit there in a corner cloaked and not move forever. It completely defeats the point of the original cloak.
Tolna Nov 26, 2012 @ 4:29pm 
It's not the Deadringer that's OP, it's the fact it synergises waaaaaay too well with certain weapons. But oh boy is it annoying.

For instance, with the Le'tranger and a payload cart, you can feign roughly every few seconds, effectively abusing the 90% damage resistance of it's cloak to heal back up and stall the defenders for an obnoxiously long amount of time.

Another combo is the Big Earner, now by itself the knife is kinda blah, but with the dead ringer, you can worry less about having full cloak before a backstab, combine with the Le'tranger for added bonus cloak on hit.

Before, the enforcer made this thing crazy, as due to the nature of the Dead Ringer never shimering, the Enforcer used to have no downside with it (Hence why it changed).


The dead ringer itself is a kind of slipery slope, you know something is kinda OP when everyone and his/her mother is using it. Kinda like the Rhino guns from Ratchet & Clank, or Darius/Shen/Blitzcrank in League of Legends. It's just kinda the best option 80% of the time.

T:DR It's managable but oh sweet jesus is it annoying to fight good spies with it. Even if the Invis is a better option overall technically.
GarnetSnatcher Nov 26, 2012 @ 4:57pm 
It's annoying. That is all.
Octavia Nov 26, 2012 @ 5:22pm 
It's a bad concept; I can see what Valve was attempting, which was a way for the Spy to go through choke points while providing a paranoia aspect to it. That is a good concept, since it allows a Spy to function in a way he normally cannot while he gives up the aspect of Cloak on will; in theory, it is an excellent method. The problem arises when it is used to escape from situations a Spy should have died in; it's essentially a get out of jail free card, which is ridiculous considering the risk versus reward nature of the Spy. Mess up a Backstab? Well, if you have your Dead Ringer and there's no Pyro or liquid around, you're pretty much guaranteed to escape due to the huge damage resistance and no shimmer quality. While he can be shut down by several methods, those are both applicable to the other two Watches, and the only real disadvantage is losing the element of surprise and the Nncloak noise; in exchange, you gain so much survivability it is ridiculous, especially when escaping from any class that isn't a Pyro.

Is it Overpowered? Not really; it's quite easy to shut down with a Pyro who properly ignites Spies and Airblasts them. It's similar to the Enforcer in terms of design; it's a weapon which encourages a bad style of play, and allows a player to gain an advantage in a bad situation they have put themselves in. I'd rather have a weapon which allows a Spy to avoid damage while retaining his Disguise, perhaps even allowing him to feign the firing of weapons, scoping of the Sniper Rifle and such; perhaps a Disguise Kit, although I'm not sure of the disadvantages possible. Inability to Cloak while Disguised could be an excellent one, as it would force a Spy to be much more stealthy, but it would certainly increase how convincing his Disguise is; a player who is firing shots, that you don't know are blanks, is impossible to be a Spy currently. It would encourage a unique method of play in a way that rewards skill, unlike the Dead Ringer, which allows bad players to escape from situations they should perish in; rather than make it so a player will be rewarded for 'bad' play, they are rewarded for inventive us of their arsenal.
Rule 34 is some good shit yo Nov 26, 2012 @ 5:51pm 
Calm down plz c;
Wanderer(Retired) Nov 26, 2012 @ 6:00pm 
I agree with Octavia in that it's a "get out of jail free card" since it lets you be more reckless with attackers, instead of rewarding you for using the Spy stealthily like how you would play with the other invisibility watches. This of course leads to bad gameplay habits and as a result most Spy players won't bother to master the class properly, instead they just try to abuse the damage reduction and fake death mechanics that the Dead Ringer provides.

With that said, it's good in MvM.
TheManInTheFedora Nov 26, 2012 @ 6:01pm 
Originally posted by The Ferret:
With that said, it's good in MvM.

troo dat!
OmnicidalVictini Nov 26, 2012 @ 6:10pm 
Dead ringer is not overpowered, but WAY too many spies use it.
Duh Asian Nov 26, 2012 @ 6:28pm 
its fair not overpowered.
Pro : Dies on hit
Con : Can only cloak when you get hit.
GarnetSnatcher Nov 26, 2012 @ 6:57pm 
Originally posted by Octavia:
It's a bad concept; I can see what Valve was attempting, which was a way for the Spy to go through choke points while providing a paranoia aspect to it. That is a good concept, since it allows a Spy to function in a way he normally cannot while he gives up the aspect of Cloak on will; in theory, it is an excellent method. The problem arises when it is used to escape from situations a Spy should have died in; it's essentially a get out of jail free card, which is ridiculous considering the risk versus reward nature of the Spy. Mess up a Backstab? Well, if you have your Dead Ringer and there's no Pyro or liquid around, you're pretty much guaranteed to escape due to the huge damage resistance and no shimmer quality. While he can be shut down by several methods, those are both applicable to the other two Watches, and the only real disadvantage is losing the element of surprise and the Nncloak noise; in exchange, you gain so much survivability it is ridiculous, especially when escaping from any class that isn't a Pyro.

Is it Overpowered? Not really; it's quite easy to shut down with a Pyro who properly ignites Spies and Airblasts them. It's similar to the Enforcer in terms of design; it's a weapon which encourages a bad style of play, and allows a player to gain an advantage in a bad situation they have put themselves in. I'd rather have a weapon which allows a Spy to avoid damage while retaining his Disguise, perhaps even allowing him to feign the firing of weapons, scoping of the Sniper Rifle and such; perhaps a Disguise Kit, although I'm not sure of the disadvantages possible. Inability to Cloak while Disguised could be an excellent one, as it would force a Spy to be much more stealthy, but it would certainly increase how convincing his Disguise is; a player who is firing shots, that you don't know are blanks, is impossible to be a Spy currently. It would encourage a unique method of play in a way that rewards skill, unlike the Dead Ringer, which allows bad players to escape from situations they should perish in; rather than make it so a player will be rewarded for 'bad' play, they are rewarded for inventive us of their arsenal.
I woulda said something related to this but i'm trying to study on Natural Selection 2(A video game) because i'm gonna get it and i would want to win.
PTron3000 Nov 27, 2012 @ 12:34am 
The deadringer statistically is a clear outlier. The amount of people using it is a suggestion that every other cloaking modification simply sucks.
Hank !DILLIGAF !suicide Hill Nov 27, 2012 @ 1:20am 
It's a device that makes you practically invincible for a period of time. I play pyro quite a bit and tonight I kept using the flamethrower on a spy who was disguising himself as me. In my settings I've selected the option to play a noise whenever I cause damage to an enemy, and also to display the amount of damage on the screen... I swear every time I set him on fire a fake dead body would drop to the ground and I'd wave the flamethrower around and then there would be a burning silhouette standing in front of me and no damage noise and no numbers popping up in the air...

I don't know if its OP or not, but it takes forever to kill them, even at point blank it range it takes forever to even get a chance to do damage to them.
Jetty Nov 27, 2012 @ 1:59am 
Originally posted by Just Your Average Gamer:
. I once was actaully called a F2P noob once for using the regular invisi watch! It's kinda sad actually.
It's sad because every player who mains DR should already know how to use the stock and C&D.

And no, Dead Ringer is annoying and over used but not extremely OP or simple that in general. You don't want to encounter a DR Spy-cicle, that's for sure.
There again DR is a double cut.

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Date Posted: Nov 26, 2012 @ 3:26pm
Posts: 27