Tolna Nov 24, 2012 @ 6:30am
Medics: To shoot or not to shoot.
I've been noticing a lot of people posting when it comes to any Syringe or Mele unlock for the medic saying that it will encourage "Battle Medics" and should NEVER happen.

Why is this? What possibly makes people think a new defence tool will cause this?

Simple logic states that, yes it will, however! It also would state that after a few rounds said medic will do one of 3 things.

1) get kills and be somewhat of a credit to team.

2) die a lot and start healing more.

3) die a lot and swap classes.

Any of these things will be good and in all honesty. Do you really want a 4rth Sniper, 3rd spy, a scout that misses every shot, or rev walking brass beast heavy? As upposed to some class that, even though he miiiight not, just might heal you and allow you to do better!

So, with that said, is any medic that uses the syringe gun to defend himself or an Ubersaw really that big of an issue? If a solider is capping the point with 50 health, alone, and I'm at full, also alone after a big team fight, am I not allowed to finish him? Personally I use my syringe gun if I'm alone or my heal target can't aim. According to the forums I should be lynched for it! Wth people! Medics should be allowed to defend themselves or assist in more ways then healing. It pains me to see posts that suggest medics are only good at healing and dodging.

In short, the battle medic styreotype is why we can't have nice things!

Regards,

A Medic main
Showing 1-15 of 21 comments
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Wanderer(Retired) Nov 24, 2012 @ 6:37am 
People are really that opposed to a Medic defending himself? If a Spy tries to sneak up on me and my patient doesn't notice I'll take out my Ubersaw and stop him myself if I have to, because if I don't he'll just end up backstabbing me and the patient. A Medic that only uses the medigun is a dead Medic most of the time; this is a fact since Spies and Scouts have a habit of ambushing Medics and the patients can't always protect them since they may be preoccupied with other attackers, and the Medic will have to defend himself sometimes or risk losing a much needed Ubercharge.
Tolna Nov 24, 2012 @ 7:00am 
Originally posted by The Ferret:
People are really that opposed to a Medic defending himself? If a Spy tries to sneak up on me and my patient doesn't notice I'll take out my Ubersaw and stop him myself if I have to, because if I don't he'll just end up backstabbing me and the patient. A Medic that only uses the medigun is a dead Medic most of the time; this is a fact since Spies and Scouts have a habit of ambushing Medics and the patients can't always protect them since they may be preoccupied with other attackers, and the Medic will have to defend himself sometimes or risk losing a much needed Ubercharge.

Yeah been noticing it a lot more in game and on the forums. Due to the upcoming Grordbort pack, perhaps? I dunno.

At any rate, it's really starting to grind my gears. Hence the post.
Octavia Nov 24, 2012 @ 7:00am 
A weapon that promotes a Medic to seek conflict is not what he needs, as he is not a combative class; it is similar to the Spy and his Enforcer, which makes him better in direct combat, and that is not the role of the Spy. There's a difference between defending yourself as needed, such as when ambushed and your patient is occupied, and directly seeking combat for kills. The latter is what people should not be encouraged to do, although a Medic should not always be healing; there are several cases where I fight alongside my patients, in order to dispose of an enemy they may have trouble with to save both our lives. Spies and Scouts tend to be one of those threats, especially if I am with a Demoman.

A Medic should not be gaining kills, the same way a Spy should be primarily earning Backstabs rather than Enforcer kills; this is what people do not want to happen to the Medic, since his role is not direct kills. If there were to be a Syringe Gun or Melee that would encourage the Medic to do his role, while at the same time functioning as a method of self protection, I would encourage that; the only problem is that the weapon cannot encourage him to go seeking direct conflicts, as the Enforcer does. It must encourage him to heal, or at the very least, only fight momentarily when the situation is dire.
Last edited by Octavia; Nov 24, 2012 @ 7:01am
Tolna Nov 24, 2012 @ 7:10am 
Originally posted by Octavia:
A weapon that promotes a Medic to seek conflict is not what he needs, as he is not a combative class; it is similar to the Spy and his Enforcer, which makes him better in direct combat, and that is not the role of the Spy. There's a difference between defending yourself as needed, such as when ambushed and your patient is occupied, and directly seeking combat for kills. The latter is what people should not be encouraged to do, although a Medic should not always be healing; there are several cases where I fight alongside my patients, in order to dispose of an enemy they may have trouble with to save both our lives. Spies and Scouts tend to be one of those threats, especially if I am with a Demoman.

A Medic should not be gaining kills, the same way a Spy should be primarily earning Backstabs rather than Enforcer kills; this is what people do not want to happen to the Medic, since his role is not direct kills. If there were to be a Syringe Gun or Melee that would encourage the Medic to do his role, while at the same time functioning as a method of self protection, I would encourage that; the only problem is that the weapon cannot encourage him to go seeking direct conflicts, as the Enforcer does. It must encourage him to heal, or at the very least, only fight momentarily when the situation is dire.

True, and to be honest direct combat is not a good thing for a medic. Personally I've been seeing a ton of people lately go nuts if I so much as ubersaw a scout trying to kill me. The "medics should only be passive" stuff is just not true, the best medics always keep everyone healed and have time for combat!

Be nice to see a sort of roaming support kit for the medic, but alas, battlemedic kills that dream. Outside the quickfix I suppose.
Wanderer(Retired) Nov 24, 2012 @ 7:16am 
Originally posted by Tolna: Thing of Science!:
True, and to be honest direct combat is not a good thing for a medic. Personally I've been seeing a ton of people lately go nuts if I so much as ubersaw a scout trying to kill me. The "medics should only be passive" stuff is just not true, the best medics always keep everyone healed and have time for combat!

Be nice to see a sort of roaming support kit for the medic, but alas, battlemedic kills that dream. Outside the quickfix I suppose.
Really? When I take out an Ubersaw to attack a Scout that ambushed me no one even says anything. The servers you are playing on must have some elitists that think that Medics should just let Scouts and Spies kill them without any resistance.
Tolna Nov 24, 2012 @ 7:21am 
Originally posted by The Ferret:
Originally posted by Tolna: Thing of Science!:
True, and to be honest direct combat is not a good thing for a medic. Personally I've been seeing a ton of people lately go nuts if I so much as ubersaw a scout trying to kill me. The "medics should only be passive" stuff is just not true, the best medics always keep everyone healed and have time for combat!

Be nice to see a sort of roaming support kit for the medic, but alas, battlemedic kills that dream. Outside the quickfix I suppose.
Really? When I take out an Ubersaw to attack a Scout that ambushed me no one even says anything. The servers you are playing on must have some elitists that think that Medics should just let Scouts and Spies kill them without any resistance.

Funny thing is I've started seeing this stuff on Valve servers and upper scale servers. Maybe it's just poor luck.

Or, something is making more and more people think this. No idea what, but boy is it annoying!
Last edited by Tolna; Nov 24, 2012 @ 7:37am
Punky Nov 24, 2012 @ 7:57am 
It's not that people are against battle medics.

People are against battle medics who never heal.

If you heal but defend when being attacked, it's fine.

If you rush into battle shooting syringes as your teammates die, it's bad.
Major Havoc Nov 24, 2012 @ 8:10am 
I have managed to rack up quite a few kills with my Medic with the syringe gun and bone saw, even a few heavies. But yes, the primary function is to heal. I do wish that some people would use an Engineers Dispenser instead of calling for a medic, that little arrow is a pain when more than two characters are calling for a medic.
Octavia Nov 24, 2012 @ 8:23am 
Originally posted by Tolna: Thing of Science!:
True, and to be honest direct combat is not a good thing for a medic. Personally I've been seeing a ton of people lately go nuts if I so much as ubersaw a scout trying to kill me. The "medics should only be passive" stuff is just not true, the best medics always keep everyone healed and have time for combat!

Be nice to see a sort of roaming support kit for the medic, but alas, battlemedic kills that dream. Outside the quickfix I suppose.

It depends on the server; I've had a Sniper locked in Melee combat with a Demoman, both were very lower health, and I know this due to my Solemn Vow. I run up with my Syringe Gun, and any sensible person would've backed up towards me; he keeps crying Medic and tries to Melee him. After I end up killing the Demoman, I am told that "Medics should never fight if they have someone to heal." and that I was a "Bad Medic for not healing a Sniper."; note that every combative class told me I was a great Medic, and later on a person on the same server got yelled at for 'pocketing a Sniper'. All in all, he was a bad Sniper for getting himself into that situation, and yet he tries to shift the blame on me.

Honestly, I think many players simply want to switch the blame onto a Medic; after all, he's an indirect class who can easily be help 'responsible' for your errors, according to many people. I'll gladly admit when I incorrectly time an Uber and get you killed, or when I miss an obvious Spy and get Backstabbed; those are my mistakes. My mistakes are not when my patient fails to notice me getting flanked, refuses to turn around and save me, leading to me being forced to engage in combat with my assailant; that is the fault of my patient, or arguably my team, for allowing me to be flanked. Should I blame them? Of course not, they easily could've been outplayed and the enemy took advantage by outplaying me; they should, likewise, not blame me if I am forced to defend myself, since I am attempting to keep myself alive, and if my patient is smart he'll realize what I'm doing, which means he will defend me more in the future.
PossiblySheckleFag Nov 24, 2012 @ 11:21am 
On that note, the Medic is the only class that hasn't gotten a new weapon since the Uber update, and he has had less weapon and hat updates and has the second least misc updates than any other class in the game.
Last edited by PossiblySheckleFag; Nov 24, 2012 @ 11:24am
Obvious Shizzel Nov 24, 2012 @ 12:42pm 
Here is an idea, a needle gun that does mini-crits to the last person who hurt your buddy.
GarnetSnatcher Nov 24, 2012 @ 1:38pm 
People get mad because you attack, as they think you should always heal and do nothing else because that is TOTALLY what medics are for. People do not understand why medic has a syringe gun. I only use it in short bursts before running away, or at the same time. Otherwise i'm not helping the team. I do agree that you shouldn't spam the syringe gun, but use up a clip, run, reload , and continue to cover more health with sacirficing yours.
Tolna Nov 24, 2012 @ 6:11pm 
Originally posted by Vultraz | TMM(+):
On that note, the Medic is the only class that hasn't gotten a new weapon since the Uber update, and he has had less weapon and hat updates and has the second least misc updates than any other class in the game.

And the stereotype of "Battlemedic" is most likely why, IMO, and it sucks.

If it were up to me, I'd give the medic the most Misc/Hats/Weapons just to make him more enticing to play so you'd actually have more people wanting to go medic.

Like I said before, even IF someone goes medic just to "Battle" he's still probably more useful then a 3rd spy or Sniper (ya know, that one that doesn't seem to know what he's doing in the back.)
SMASH Nov 24, 2012 @ 6:38pm 
No medic should not be attacking, your duty is to build ubercharge and heal. When you are being attacked, you tell your pocket to defend you. Your duty is to heal and if your pocket fails to defend you then he has failed as a pocket. The only time I'd reccomend attacking is when your alone with no player to heal or being useless (Battle Medic). For pubs these laws do not apply however, since most people playing are not willing to put their life ahead of their medic so by all means you should attack. The medic doesn't need a weapon that promotes defending ones self, that would promote battle medic.
The Wild West Pyro Nov 24, 2012 @ 6:44pm 
Hmm...

Battle Medics are really doing it wrong- a Medic must HEAL as well.

However, I agree- a Medic should heal, but DEFEND HIMSELF WHEN NECESSARY.

So a weapon that could enable the Medic to defend himself, but not make him go battle medic ( for example, a syringe gun or bonesaw with 10 less damage but a faster firing speed would do)
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Date Posted: Nov 24, 2012 @ 6:30am
Posts: 21