Sharpshooter Jul 12, 2013 @ 9:02pm
Liberty Launcher Changes
I know I'm probably the only one but I am really sad that they changed the liberty launcher. I liked the way it was before without the damage penalty and less rockets. I think its too much like the direct hit and I hate how it takes more rockets to kill someone now. I had a strange and it was one of my favorite weapons, but now I think I will sell it because it is useless. :( I miss the old one.....
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Hebigami / 蛇神 Jul 12, 2013 @ 9:03pm 
its true just set back to normal
fleetfox Jul 12, 2013 @ 9:06pm 
Same here :( Now I've switched back to default and I subconsciously reload after I shoot 3 rockets lol.
100% Recycled Awesome Jul 12, 2013 @ 10:40pm 
I used LL quite a bit as a soldier, but given the changes, it's a garbage weapon.

LL is only good at short ranges now due to the damage and fall off nerf. But the stock has always been better at short ranges. Thus, I've abandoned the LL and switched back to stock.

It's sad and the LL didn't need the nerf at all, but live with what happened.
EvilDEATH1234 Jul 13, 2013 @ 1:53pm 
Originally posted by Sharpshooter:
I know I'm probably the only one but I am really sad that they changed the liberty launcher. I liked the way it was before without the damage penalty and less rockets. I think its too much like the direct hit and I hate how it takes more rockets to kill someone now. I had a strange and it was one of my favorite weapons, but now I think I will sell it because it is useless. :( I miss the old one.....

Trust me, I know for a fact that everyone prefered the first one more, I've been to 60+ servers since the update, all packed with at least 6 soldiers, only 2 were using the Liberty Launcher. It would have been more like at least 2 per server before this update. It had a Tomislav style nerf made to it, but in actuality, it was more severe. It is essentially being forced into a weaker and slower Direct Hit at this point, there isn't a transition between stock and the Direct Hit at this point. Every soldier that wants to do well, can not and will not use this weapon at this point. And being overused should never constitute a nerf, and if it does, than why are stock weapons still so usefull?
Last edited by EvilDEATH1234; Jul 13, 2013 @ 2:26pm
Sentient_Toaster Jul 13, 2013 @ 2:14pm 
Because it was perfectly reasonable to have a weapon that killed everybody short of a heavy or wrangled sentry faster and easier than stock (given that +40% velocity with the same blast radius makes it far harder to avoid; even if your prediction is *perfect* with stock, unless they're unaware or they're pretty close or a spun-up heavy, they can change course and take less or no damage), with a penalty that didn't matter much in continuous extended fights (where you may find yourself continually firing one / reloading one). Rocket capacity penalties only matter when it's a stop-and-go fight where there's ample opportunity for fully reloading.

It's not the DH. The DH requires precision and remains the airshot specialist; stock and LL let you be sloppy. LL just allows you to be as sloppy against faster classes or at slightly longer ranges doing moderate damage where with stock you'd likely be doing no damage whatsoever. Stock is better for close-range ground-bound encounters where you're much harder to dodge, or if health is effectively higher because medics are involved. (And the CM5K is still frustratingly terrible when there are minisentries involved).
| Annika Jul 13, 2013 @ 2:18pm 
True even tho liberity launcher got that one missing rocket back I still prefer the old good liberity launcher
EvilDEATH1234 Jul 13, 2013 @ 2:25pm 
Originally posted by Sentient_Toaster:
Because it was perfectly reasonable to have a weapon that killed everybody short of a heavy or wrangled sentry faster and easier than stock (given that +40% velocity with the same blast radius makes it far harder to avoid; even if your prediction is *perfect* with stock, unless they're unaware or they're pretty close or a spun-up heavy, they can change course and take less or no damage), with a penalty that didn't matter much in continuous extended fights (where you may find yourself continually firing one / reloading one). Rocket capacity penalties only matter when it's a stop-and-go fight where there's ample opportunity for fully reloading.

It's not the DH. The DH requires precision and remains the airshot specialist; stock and LL let you be sloppy. LL just allows you to be as sloppy against faster classes or at slightly longer ranges doing moderate damage where with stock you'd likely be doing no damage whatsoever. Stock is better for close-range ground-bound encounters where you're much harder to dodge, or if health is effectively higher because medics are involved. (And the CM5K is still frustratingly terrible when there are minisentries involved).

It was only a faster kill if you knew what you were doing, and now, you are forced into using an extra rocket with the Liberty Launcher in all engagements, unless you always have perfect aim (good luck). And you're three points are where most of kills happen, the element of suprise is very strong, and it is hard to suprise anyone with the LL, as you are required to use more rockets all the time now, your enemy has more than enough time to react to your attack. And close range rocket kills are 80% of all kills with a launcher. And since when are heavies not spun up in a combat zone, where you will be the majority of the game. And, at this point, you have to be more precise with the new LL than the old, it is much harder to hit 3 good shots than 2. You can't be sloppy anymore at all, there was a larger room for error with the 3 rockets, which was already enough, than with the weak 4 rockets. Normal speed rocket launchers are designed to be close-medium range weapons, and the LL extended that range, but most engagements are short-medium anyways, because that is how the maps are in TF2. The LL allowed you to extend your reach originally, but now you will be doing so little damage at that range, that it will not scare off, finish, or have a chance of killing your enemy at this point. In the time you shoot all 4 rockets, you will be dead.
Last edited by EvilDEATH1234; Jul 13, 2013 @ 2:27pm
Sharpshooter Jul 13, 2013 @ 3:25pm 
Yeah that's exactly why I hate the new one. You deal less damage per life if you only have the ability to shoot three rockets, where the fourth requires extra time to get all four off before you die.
A Dud Jul 13, 2013 @ 3:35pm 
I have a solution: use a different rocket launcer.
Glow In The Dark Bat Jul 13, 2013 @ 3:39pm 
I think the nerf is good. Instead of LL just being a crutch for bad soldier who cannot aim
{λ³}NORTH KOREA IS BEST KOREA (Banned) Jul 13, 2013 @ 3:46pm 
It's the only undeserved nerf of this update, I never thought of it as OP or as a crutch. Infact, I always thought it was a bad weapon and I would always be amazed when people could handle it.
EvilDEATH1234 Jul 13, 2013 @ 7:39pm 
Originally posted by An Arctic Fox:
I think the nerf is good. Instead of LL just being a crutch for bad soldier who cannot aim

Now it isn't a crutch at all, even if you can aim, you don't get results now. The stock is more of a crutch at this point in the game. At least they do real damage. And I hope you are joking when you say the nerf was good, as it was completely undeserved, and has gone below tomislav and pre-update CW5K usage already, and how long has it been since the update. A few people gave it a try, and couldn't take it seriously at this point. Yes, and those were the people saying that it was a crutch, they were testing it out just to see how bad it is in practice. It is absolutely awful, you can do better competitvely with any other damaging launcher than this one, it is out of the game. Lets be honest, if this update never came out, how many people would know that the winger or the short circuit existed. Well, the LL is going to take the path that the Tomislav took, once a very viable weapon, and now put to the back page of your backpack to collect dust. Only the change with the LL is much worse than the Tomislav change, so instead of new people maybe wanting to try it, it will get thrown away. The Tomislav can still compete somewhat with the other miniguns, to an extent. There is no extent with this one, its a direct downgrade to the Direct Hit, to get average damage from it (compared to other launchers), you need to have a perfect shot, everytime. So why not just use the Direct Hit if you want to go for Direct Hits with a handi-capped launcher. And if you want the splash, go with another launcher with splash, the LL's splash is so weak were it could originally possibly outshine the stock, at longer ranges. Now, we are talking 20 damage at those ranges, most would rather take their chances spamming stock speed rockets at an enemy at this point than trying to get good with a handi-capped launcher. Using this thing is basically like throwing a firecracker in a strait line, why use the firecracker when you could use a real rocket?
EvilDEATH1234 Jul 13, 2013 @ 7:42pm 
Originally posted by oscarvdhooft:
It's the only undeserved nerf of this update, I never thought of it as OP or as a crutch. Infact, I always thought it was a bad weapon and I would always be amazed when people could handle it.

I mean, a lot of people used it and that is my best theory as to why it was nerfed. Valve has a history of doing that, but nothing this severe has ever happened so far. I think Valve should rethink their strategy to encourage more weapon usage than to destroy 40% of the TF2 soldier's primary. I mean, pre-update what were the 2 most common launchers, the stock and liberty launcher. Now, the LL is the least used, you would get more usefulness out of the rocket jumper, at least it clearly states it does 0 damage to enemies.
EvilDEATH1234 Jul 13, 2013 @ 7:54pm 
Originally posted by Ape Affair:
I have a solution: use a different rocket launcer.

Not that easy, and besides, this isn't about what launcher I use personaly, I wouldn't blame a single person for not caring. This is moreso about the unfairness of this "rebalance" (obvious nerf to anyone who can calculate simple time equations). If Valve made the Black Box have +15 health on hit, but a 25% damage penalty, you can gaurantee I will be here, arguing as to why it is so unfair. Also, I can gaurantee you that I don't use the Black Box much at all, I just try to remain impartial to opinion that has no base, and attack obvious imbalances that caused nearly the entire TF2 community to react poorly. Look around at how many people use it now. I visited 60+ servers since the update, and a full 2 people out of every server were using the new LL. I am actually helping Valve out here, whether or not they realise it. I am helping find unpopular weapons for them to change, and giving them solid proof, that no one has been able to disprove since I started commenting about this terrible TF2 "rebalance," as to why they should fix it. Valve obviously made unpopular weapons popular in this update, the winger is all over the place now, as is the CW5K. And the LL disappeared as soon as the stat changes were released. Seems unbalanced.
Carl Sagan² Jul 13, 2013 @ 8:16pm 
I'm going to dismantle your the stock launcher is a cluch its stock and the most preferred launcher since there is no down side.
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Date Posted: Jul 12, 2013 @ 9:02pm
Posts: 111