TheLastDesperado Jul 10, 2013 @ 3:32pm
Liberty Launcher pointless now?
I'd heard many say that it was pretty bad before, but I personally liked it as a medium between the regular launcher and the direct hit. But with the damage reduction now, what's the point of it?
Showing 1-15 of 111 comments
< >
SirDuckens Jul 10, 2013 @ 3:34pm 
It wasn't bad before the update. 3 shots (not good) higher speed than normal rocket launcher (good) same blast radius? I mean why.

Now it has 4 shots (good) same speed (good) blast radius (good) 25% penalty (I would've changed it to 15%)
[S] Kodama Jul 10, 2013 @ 3:34pm 
Well, it still has fast firing rate with 4 missiles. You only had 3 before, now you have 4 but with 25 % damage nerfed
EvilDEATH1234 Jul 11, 2013 @ 11:41am 
Well, there does not really seem to be a point in using it anymore, it has very low dps compared to the other launchers, around 23 dps lower than the stock. Not only that, it maximum ramp-up damage is only 84, which is less than the shotgun's 90 ( not trying to imply the shotgun is bad, but it is a secondary weapon designed for secondary roles) and the shotgun is also instant hit compared to projectiles fired by launchers. Although it does reach its target more quickly, what is the point if the only relieable damage that you can get out of it now is around 50, compared to the stock's as well as the other's 80. Now with the 25% damage reduction, it takes 4 rockets to do what the original Liberty Launcher could do in 3, as well as every other rocket launcher, so statistically speaking, the new LL is going to take a minimum of .8 seconds longer to kill a target. It is also the only launcher incapeable of killing an 125 hp class in 1 hit with a crit, the lowest damage it does is 101 with a crit, compared to 135 of others (not the direct hit). The previous higher risk ( 3 rockets) for a higher reward ( faster rocket speed) has been abandoned in this new variant and replaced with the risk that you are losing time by firing extra rockets to do the same job the original LL did in less time, the one extra rocket does not justify anything here, as you are just wasting more time firing it than it is actually worth firing. This update to the Liberty Launcher was completely pointless, statistically and based upon my opinion, and it is ridiculously underpowered compared to the rest of the launchers now, even compared to the nerfed cow-mangler 5000 ( The second one, 5 shots, 10% less damage, 5% slower reload). I don't understand why it was changed, I never heard a single person complain that it was over or underpowered, but that it was more of a "crutch" or a learning launcher. It had perfect balance between the stock and the direct hit, but now it is in a class of its own that is so imbalanced, it shouldn't of gotten past testing in the first place. Now, if you want faster projectiles, you are forced to go to the direct hit to stay in competition with the stock, as the LL is far too weak to compare to any other launcher. The best way Valve can fix it is to revert it to its original version where it belonged, as a high risk/ high reward weapon, instead of the high risk, low reward weapon it is now. There was no point in changing it in the first place, and now Valve should revert it to its original form, just like they practically just did with the Cow-Mangler. Hopefully they catch this before its too late, in my long experience of TF2 play time, if someone wasnt using stock/reskin they were using the liberty launcher and maybe sometimes another launcher (except the cow-mangler). Now it is the opposite, if they are not using stock, they are using the Mangler and maybe another (except the LL). Valve should realise that a change this drastic obviously indicates an imbalance of power, as now if someone is uncomfortable with the stock, they use the mangler as it is the next easiest thing to use now, unlike the LL which is arguably harder to use than the beggar's bazooka and direct hit.
{λ³}NORTH KOREA IS BEST KOREA (Banned) Jul 11, 2013 @ 11:43am 
Originally posted by EvilDEATH1234:
Well, there does not really seem to be a point in using it anymore, it has very low dps compared to the other launchers, around 23 dps lower than the stock. Not only that, it maximum ramp-up damage is only 84, which is less than the shotgun's 90 ( not trying to imply the shotgun is bad, but it is a secondary weapon designed for secondary roles) and the shotgun is also instant hit compared to projectiles fired by launchers. Although it does reach its target more quickly, what is the point if the only relieable damage that you can get out of it now is around 50, compared to the stock's as well as the other's 80. Now with the 25% damage reduction, it takes 4 rockets to do what the original Liberty Launcher could do in 3, as well as every other rocket launcher, so statistically speaking, the new LL is going to take a minimum of .8 seconds longer to kill a target. It is also the only launcher incapeable of killing an 125 hp class in 1 hit with a crit, the lowest damage it does is 101 with a crit, compared to 135 of others (not the direct hit). The previous higher risk ( 3 rockets) for a higher reward ( faster rocket speed) has been abandoned in this new variant and replaced with the risk that you are losing time by firing extra rockets to do the same job the original LL did in less time, the one extra rocket does not justify anything here, as you are just wasting more time firing it than it is actually worth firing. This update to the Liberty Launcher was completely pointless, statistically and based upon my opinion, and it is ridiculously underpowered compared to the rest of the launchers now, even compared to the nerfed cow-mangler 5000 ( The second one, 5 shots, 10% less damage, 5% slower reload). I don't understand why it was changed, I never heard a single person complain that it was over or underpowered, but that it was more of a "crutch" or a learning launcher. It had perfect balance between the stock and the direct hit, but now it is in a class of its own that is so imbalanced, it shouldn't of gotten past testing in the first place. Now, if you want faster projectiles, you are forced to go to the direct hit to stay in competition with the stock, as the LL is far too weak to compare to any other launcher. The best way Valve can fix it is to revert it to its original version where it belonged, as a high risk/ high reward weapon, instead of the high risk, low reward weapon it is now. There was no point in changing it in the first place, and now Valve should revert it to its original form, just like they practically just did with the Cow-Mangler. Hopefully they catch this before its too late, in my long experience of TF2 play time, if someone wasnt using stock/reskin they were using the liberty launcher and maybe sometimes another launcher (except the cow-mangler). Now it is the opposite, if they are not using stock, they are using the Mangler and maybe another (except the LL). Valve should realise that a change this drastic obviously indicates an imbalance of power, as now if someone is uncomfortable with the stock, they use the mangler as it is the next easiest thing to use now, unlike the LL which is arguably harder to use than the beggar's bazooka and direct hit.

tl,dr

The liberty launcher was crap already, who the heck called it OP so that valve would nerf it?
Mr. Smooooth Jul 11, 2013 @ 11:48am 
Originally posted by EvilDEATH1234:
Well, there does not really seem to be a point in using it anymore, it has very low dps compared to the other launchers, around 23 dps lower than the stock. Not only that, it maximum ramp-up damage is only 84, which is less than the shotgun's 90 ( not trying to imply the shotgun is bad, but it is a secondary weapon designed for secondary roles) and the shotgun is also instant hit compared to projectiles fired by launchers. Although it does reach its target more quickly, what is the point if the only relieable damage that you can get out of it now is around 50, compared to the stock's as well as the other's 80. Now with the 25% damage reduction, it takes 4 rockets to do what the original Liberty Launcher could do in 3, as well as every other rocket launcher, so statistically speaking, the new LL is going to take a minimum of .8 seconds longer to kill a target. It is also the only launcher incapeable of killing an 125 hp class in 1 hit with a crit, the lowest damage it does is 101 with a crit, compared to 135 of others (not the direct hit). The previous higher risk ( 3 rockets) for a higher reward ( faster rocket speed) has been abandoned in this new variant and replaced with the risk that you are losing time by firing extra rockets to do the same job the original LL did in less time, the one extra rocket does not justify anything here, as you are just wasting more time firing it than it is actually worth firing. This update to the Liberty Launcher was completely pointless, statistically and based upon my opinion, and it is ridiculously underpowered compared to the rest of the launchers now, even compared to the nerfed cow-mangler 5000 ( The second one, 5 shots, 10% less damage, 5% slower reload). I don't understand why it was changed, I never heard a single person complain that it was over or underpowered, but that it was more of a "crutch" or a learning launcher. It had perfect balance between the stock and the direct hit, but now it is in a class of its own that is so imbalanced, it shouldn't of gotten past testing in the first place. Now, if you want faster projectiles, you are forced to go to the direct hit to stay in competition with the stock, as the LL is far too weak to compare to any other launcher. The best way Valve can fix it is to revert it to its original version where it belonged, as a high risk/ high reward weapon, instead of the high risk, low reward weapon it is now. There was no point in changing it in the first place, and now Valve should revert it to its original form, just like they practically just did with the Cow-Mangler. Hopefully they catch this before its too late, in my long experience of TF2 play time, if someone wasnt using stock/reskin they were using the liberty launcher and maybe sometimes another launcher (except the cow-mangler). Now it is the opposite, if they are not using stock, they are using the Mangler and maybe another (except the LL). Valve should realise that a change this drastic obviously indicates an imbalance of power, as now if someone is uncomfortable with the stock, they use the mangler as it is the next easiest thing to use now, unlike the LL which is arguably harder to use than the beggar's bazooka and direct hit.

This, all of this. Valve made some very wierd choices in this update. While I think Dead Ringer and Wranger got needed nerfs, and the Gunslinger "BUG" was finally fixed, changes like those to the liberty launcher seem wierd, as the weapon seemed fine in the first place.
EvilDEATH1234 Jul 11, 2013 @ 11:52am 
Originally posted by oscarvdhooft(on vacation):
Originally posted by EvilDEATH1234:
Well, there does not really seem to be a point in using it anymore, it has very low dps compared to the other launchers, around 23 dps lower than the stock. Not only that, it maximum ramp-up damage is only 84, which is less than the shotgun's 90 ( not trying to imply the shotgun is bad, but it is a secondary weapon designed for secondary roles) and the shotgun is also instant hit compared to projectiles fired by launchers. Although it does reach its target more quickly, what is the point if the only relieable damage that you can get out of it now is around 50, compared to the stock's as well as the other's 80. Now with the 25% damage reduction, it takes 4 rockets to do what the original Liberty Launcher could do in 3, as well as every other rocket launcher, so statistically speaking, the new LL is going to take a minimum of .8 seconds longer to kill a target. It is also the only launcher incapeable of killing an 125 hp class in 1 hit with a crit, the lowest damage it does is 101 with a crit, compared to 135 of others (not the direct hit). The previous higher risk ( 3 rockets) for a higher reward ( faster rocket speed) has been abandoned in this new variant and replaced with the risk that you are losing time by firing extra rockets to do the same job the original LL did in less time, the one extra rocket does not justify anything here, as you are just wasting more time firing it than it is actually worth firing. This update to the Liberty Launcher was completely pointless, statistically and based upon my opinion, and it is ridiculously underpowered compared to the rest of the launchers now, even compared to the nerfed cow-mangler 5000 ( The second one, 5 shots, 10% less damage, 5% slower reload). I don't understand why it was changed, I never heard a single person complain that it was over or underpowered, but that it was more of a "crutch" or a learning launcher. It had perfect balance between the stock and the direct hit, but now it is in a class of its own that is so imbalanced, it shouldn't of gotten past testing in the first place. Now, if you want faster projectiles, you are forced to go to the direct hit to stay in competition with the stock, as the LL is far too weak to compare to any other launcher. The best way Valve can fix it is to revert it to its original version where it belonged, as a high risk/ high reward weapon, instead of the high risk, low reward weapon it is now. There was no point in changing it in the first place, and now Valve should revert it to its original form, just like they practically just did with the Cow-Mangler. Hopefully they catch this before its too late, in my long experience of TF2 play time, if someone wasnt using stock/reskin they were using the liberty launcher and maybe sometimes another launcher (except the cow-mangler). Now it is the opposite, if they are not using stock, they are using the Mangler and maybe another (except the LL). Valve should realise that a change this drastic obviously indicates an imbalance of power, as now if someone is uncomfortable with the stock, they use the mangler as it is the next easiest thing to use now, unlike the LL which is arguably harder to use than the beggar's bazooka and direct hit.

tl,dr

The liberty launcher was crap already, who the heck called it OP so that valve would nerf it?

That's what I'm trying to figure out, this entire upate made it terrible (worse than it was). As to why someone would call it OP perplexes me, as it obviously was not, I have never heard a complaint about it being OP from my 800+ hours on TF2. I hope they change it back.
{λ³}NORTH KOREA IS BEST KOREA (Banned) Jul 11, 2013 @ 11:56am 
Originally posted by EvilDEATH1234:
Originally posted by oscarvdhooft(on vacation):

tl,dr

The liberty launcher was crap already, who the heck called it OP so that valve would nerf it?

That's what I'm trying to figure out, this entire upate made it terrible (worse than it was). As to why someone would call it OP perplexes me, as it obviously was not, I have never heard a complaint about it being OP from my 800+ hours on TF2. I hope they change it back.

I read the whole thing now, I hope valve does too.
EvilDEATH1234 Jul 11, 2013 @ 11:58am 
Originally posted by Cheesus Crust:
Originally posted by EvilDEATH1234:
Well, there does not really seem to be a point in using it anymore, it has very low dps compared to the other launchers, around 23 dps lower than the stock. Not only that, it maximum ramp-up damage is only 84, which is less than the shotgun's 90 ( not trying to imply the shotgun is bad, but it is a secondary weapon designed for secondary roles) and the shotgun is also instant hit compared to projectiles fired by launchers. Although it does reach its target more quickly, what is the point if the only relieable damage that you can get out of it now is around 50, compared to the stock's as well as the other's 80. Now with the 25% damage reduction, it takes 4 rockets to do what the original Liberty Launcher could do in 3, as well as every other rocket launcher, so statistically speaking, the new LL is going to take a minimum of .8 seconds longer to kill a target. It is also the only launcher incapeable of killing an 125 hp class in 1 hit with a crit, the lowest damage it does is 101 with a crit, compared to 135 of others (not the direct hit). The previous higher risk ( 3 rockets) for a higher reward ( faster rocket speed) has been abandoned in this new variant and replaced with the risk that you are losing time by firing extra rockets to do the same job the original LL did in less time, the one extra rocket does not justify anything here, as you are just wasting more time firing it than it is actually worth firing. This update to the Liberty Launcher was completely pointless, statistically and based upon my opinion, and it is ridiculously underpowered compared to the rest of the launchers now, even compared to the nerfed cow-mangler 5000 ( The second one, 5 shots, 10% less damage, 5% slower reload). I don't understand why it was changed, I never heard a single person complain that it was over or underpowered, but that it was more of a "crutch" or a learning launcher. It had perfect balance between the stock and the direct hit, but now it is in a class of its own that is so imbalanced, it shouldn't of gotten past testing in the first place. Now, if you want faster projectiles, you are forced to go to the direct hit to stay in competition with the stock, as the LL is far too weak to compare to any other launcher. The best way Valve can fix it is to revert it to its original version where it belonged, as a high risk/ high reward weapon, instead of the high risk, low reward weapon it is now. There was no point in changing it in the first place, and now Valve should revert it to its original form, just like they practically just did with the Cow-Mangler. Hopefully they catch this before its too late, in my long experience of TF2 play time, if someone wasnt using stock/reskin they were using the liberty launcher and maybe sometimes another launcher (except the cow-mangler). Now it is the opposite, if they are not using stock, they are using the Mangler and maybe another (except the LL). Valve should realise that a change this drastic obviously indicates an imbalance of power, as now if someone is uncomfortable with the stock, they use the mangler as it is the next easiest thing to use now, unlike the LL which is arguably harder to use than the beggar's bazooka and direct hit.

This, all of this. Valve made some very wierd choices in this update. While I think Dead Ringer and Wranger got needed nerfs, and the Gunslinger "BUG" was finally fixed, changes like those to the liberty launcher seem wierd, as the weapon seemed fine in the first place.

Yeah and some other weapons as well, the break down of the polycount set attributes seems very odd when placed on a single weapon, especially the new powerjack, and some other items just got useless changes that should be reverted as they were already fine in the first place. I hope Valve is just experimenting with some of these changes for now, as some seem pointless to begin with.
Murray Jul 11, 2013 @ 12:00pm 
I'm intrigued why you're all so upset about it. Would it be because the thing was so powerful?

3 rockets is enough to get things killed, making it a very small set-back from 4. So having a projectile speed increase like it does obviously makes it very attractive. Too attractive.
{λ³}NORTH KOREA IS BEST KOREA (Banned) Jul 11, 2013 @ 12:00pm 
My opinion on the polycount removal, copy-pasted from http://steamcommunity.com/app/440/discussions/0/864973123207147055/

Alright, great update, dead ringer nerf, concheror buff, new cool maps but the one thing that itches me is how bad they handled the item sets that gave you bonuses. Instead of like, changing some they removed them all and added bonuses and disadvantages to the weapons. I don't like it. I don't like it at all. I think they should've removed the hats, since they're quite lame and change the effects. These are my suggestions and the problems I have with the sets:

Expert's ordinance:
Completely removed. Why? It was such a miniscule set that only gave 10% fire resistance. It was perhaps just enough to equip the caber and give up on a sword. Atleast they could've moved the effect to the LnL. Another form of fire resistance removed, essentially buffing the pyro.

Medieval medic:

What the heck? Just like the expert's ordinance this set has no hat and provides a miniscule effect, I only use it in medieval mode since I use overdose everywhere else. As if medics didn't suck hard enough in medieval. And this set could also make sure so that you could outlive afterburn, another buff to the pyro.

Hibernating bear:

Meh, the old effect sucked anyway, and the steak got a buff. I still feel like it needs something but meh.

Special delivery:

Yeah I get it, this set was simply OP, but it was a good counter against pyros. The set should return without the hat and with a bit of increased healing and about 25% fire resistance, cause removing this set is another buff to the pyro. What they did to the shortstop was the lamest thing ever. What if I don't want the increased healing? In my eyes it's not worth being thrown to the other end of the map by one rocket or FaN blast. I used to pair the shortstop with mad milk and candy cane and call it a mediscout so the extra healing is worthless in my eyes. What if I want the old shortstop huh?

Tank buster:

Meh I guess, but I just got the softcap so that's kinda lame in my eyes. This set was the perfect counter for mini sentries though, but the back-up just got a buff. I think they did exaggerate on the back-up with this sentry resistance when deployed. They should remove that from the back-up and give the tank buster set a return, without a hat and with 15% sentry resistance.

Gas jockey:

Same as with special delivery. Being able to outrun anything but scouts was just asking for W+M1 even though it had reduced damage. The new powerjack is cool I guess but what if I want to use it like the old one? I think the set should return without the hat and have like 20-25% extra airblast power.

Croc-o-style kit:

I really can't come up with anything good. I guess it got implemented in the form of bullet resistance for the danger shield, so a non-charged headshot couldn't kill you. It is kinda lame how the shield and bushwacka give you reduced fire and explosive resistance, which is a bit dangerous.

Saharan spy:

It should return without the hat. Now that the dead ringer is nerfed it's fine to have better cloak, especially because you have a bit of a lack of disguise. The etranger was balanced before and would work good outside the saharan spy set and now everybody and their mother is gonna use it.

End of rant.
Mr. Smooooth Jul 11, 2013 @ 12:02pm 
I miss some of those bonuses, alot, such as the Medeval Medic's +1 to regneration which I thought they'd tack onto the crossbow, or the Expert's Ordinance's 10% fire resistance and the Special Delivery's +25 hp. Powerjack and Shortstop feel really funny now, and L'etranger feels 100% op with that 40% extra cloak duration. Saharan spy may be neutered, but that revolver now feels more op then the Enforcer. I hope valve isen't done rebalancing quite yet.
Last edited by Mr. Smooooth; Jul 11, 2013 @ 12:03pm
{λ³}NORTH KOREA IS BEST KOREA (Banned) Jul 11, 2013 @ 12:04pm 
Originally posted by Cheesus Crust:
I miss some of those bonuses, alot, such as the Medeval Medic's +1 to regneration which I thought they'd tack onto the crossbow, or the Expert's Ordinance's 10% fire resistance and the Special Delivery's +25 hp. Powerjack and Shortstop feel really funny now, and L'etranger feels 100% op with that 40% extra cloak duration. Saharan spy may be neutered, but that revolver now feels more op then the Enforcer. I hope valve isen't done rebalancing quite yet.

This.
EvilDEATH1234 Jul 11, 2013 @ 12:05pm 
Originally posted by Murray:
I'm intrigued why you're all so upset about it. Would it be because the thing was so powerful?

3 rockets is enough to get things killed, making it a very small set-back from 4. So having a projectile speed increase like it does obviously makes it very attractive. Too attractive.

I think the main problem is that the change was completelt unnecessary, as now it just will take longer to kill enemies because it does less damage, as all rocket launchers have the same fire interval between their individual shots. So basically, this new launcher is always going to take longer to kill, and the extra rocket is not appealing to anyone because of the fact that you will be required to almost always use one more rocket than you originally had to in the first place with the first LL. So this update basically gave you one more rocket in a clip so you can use one more to get the kill, which will take at least .8 seconds more than the original LL.
Smugleaf Jul 11, 2013 @ 12:06pm 
I haven't been able to use it, but it seems that it could be good for aiming at longer ranges. The nerf ruined the original uses of the Liberty Launcher, but it's better that way. The original Liberty Launcher was just a bad weapon that wasn't fun to deal with. It just made the soldier better in 1vs1 situations and it was also unfairly effective against scouts and pyros. There was also the problem that the Liberty Launcher was commonly considered to be a crutch. It needed a rework to improve the weapon and make it good. I'm not sure how effective it is currently, but it's still better than its original state.
Murray Jul 11, 2013 @ 12:07pm 
It will take longer to kill enemies ASSUMING you don't miss with the other slower rocket launchers. That's what the projectile speed increase is for, to increase your chance of hitting if you have trouble with it.
Showing 1-15 of 111 comments
< >
Per page: 15 30 50
Date Posted: Jul 10, 2013 @ 3:32pm
Posts: 111