Kevin Dec 28, 2012 @ 1:43pm
Red-Tape Recorder.
It needs to be nerfed.
Showing 1-15 of 62 comments
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Wanderer(Retired) Dec 28, 2012 @ 2:06pm 
Agreed, it's annoying in it's current state.
Hank !DILLIGAF !suicide Hill Dec 28, 2012 @ 2:27pm 
Nope. It doesn't. It keeps people from murdering countless n00bs with a robot on a tripod. It forces engies not to camp. All of these things are good.
Kevin Dec 28, 2012 @ 3:01pm 
Originally posted by Hank Peggy Bobby Luanne:
Nope. It doesn't. It keeps people from murdering countless n00bs with a robot on a tripod. It forces engies not to camp. All of these things are good.

The Red tape recorder is the reason why engies camp, because if an engie stops to turn around for even one second they risk their sentry to lose a level.
ERROR 404 MUSTARD NOT FOUND (banned) Dec 28, 2012 @ 5:15pm 
Originally posted by Kevin:
Originally posted by Hank Peggy Bobby Luanne:
Nope. It doesn't. It keeps people from murdering countless n00bs with a robot on a tripod. It forces engies not to camp. All of these things are good.

The Red tape recorder is the reason why engies camp, because if an engie stops to turn around for even one second they risk their sentry to lose a level.
^ that exactly. at least with the default one, you have time to kill the spy before your sentry is dead or worthless (worthless=tape recorder, dead=default) and then get it off, and just with a couple wrench swings you have a full healh level 3 sentry if it was already fully upgraded. RTR, you have a nearly useless level 1 sentry and 400 metal at least to get it back to level 3.
Sentient_Toaster Dec 28, 2012 @ 5:41pm 
It's probably the most reliable counter to minisentry spam, since a sapped mini cannot be self-destructed and the RTR takes it out of action significantly longer than a normal sapper.
Octavia Dec 28, 2012 @ 6:18pm 
Originally posted by Hank Peggy Bobby Luanne:
Nope. It doesn't. It keeps people from murdering countless n00bs with a robot on a tripod. It forces engies not to camp. All of these things are good.

Actually, the Red Tape Recorder does significant damage if Engineers don't camp; since it currently removes levels from Sentries and Dispensers ridiculously fast, it forces an Engineer to remain close to his Sentry. If he does not remain next to it, then he essentially allows the Spy to 'destroy' his Sentry, as it will be in the phase of rebuilding by the time he can get to it; this means that he must be close to his Sentry in order remove the Red Tape Recorder quickly, since it's the only way to protect his buildings. That means that it encourages a camping method in order for the Engineer to minimize the damage; it's virtually impossible to prevent damage being done, as it simply removes levels too quickly for the Engineer to manage two Red Tape Recorders, especially since it removes Metal from Dispensers.

An Engineer can easily roam around if a Spy uses the normal Sapper, and do note that by 'roaming' I mean 'moving two steps away from his Sentry'. A regular Sapper cannot force an Engineer into a situation where no matter what he does, significant repercussions are given to the Engineer; the Red Tape Recorder can. When a weapon can be used in a spamming scenario, with no skill requirement and the inability to be countered even if outplayed, it's broken; the Red Tape Recorded fits this description.

Personally, I'd like to see the times inverted; it should remove levels slowly at first, then quickly remove the last few levels, but it should 'destroy' a Sentry much faster than the default Sapper. It then becomes a weapon which rewards the Spy for outplaying the Engineer, since it will destroy a Sentry more easily if the Spy can kill or distract the Engineer, rather than a weapons which rewards the Spy for running up to an Engineer, applying the Sapper and then forcing the Engineer into a lose-lose scenario with no way to win.
System 32 Dec 28, 2012 @ 6:24pm 
Just slow down the degrade time so the engie doesn't lose a sentry level every time and can actually stop it
End of story, we already had another big discussion about this
Chris Dec 29, 2012 @ 3:49am 
I have the Red-Tape Recorder and I think is not so bad
Wizard Dec 31, 2012 @ 2:31pm 
***You can avoid the TL;DR by skipping to the last paragraph***

Speaking as someone who plays Engineer mainly, the Red-Tape Recorder is a terrible discouragement to actually play Engineer when there's a spy on the opposite team that favors it. When one is the lone Engineer in a defense situation, it tends to be good play to patrol the area around your buildings, keeping an eye out for spies and other enemies slipping into the area.

The bugged RTR takes a building down a level in 1.7 seconds. That's the time a lone Engie has to cross a distance to your building, and strike it twice with your wrench. If a spy uncloaks and places a RTR sapper, and you are anywhere other than camped behind your sentry, you're going to be left with a level 1 sentry if you're lucky. Worse, if they place multiple sappers, you're guaranteed to lose something. Even an Engineer camped directly behind his buildings will be hard-pressed to save anything, due to the RTR being easily spammed.

The RTR differs from a normal sapper by removing levels of a building. Normally, a sapper directly damages a sentry, meaning that if it can be removed, the damage done can be fixed with some of the Engineer's metal reserves. Even if all his buildings are sapped, there is a chance to kill the sabotaging Spy, and save their buildings. If an Engineer tries the same thing with the RTR, they're down 200-400 metal on repairing the damage to just ONE building.

Most weapons have their own cons as well as pros. The RTR's pros are that it quickly removes levels from buildings. The only "con" is that it does "no damage". But considering that a level 1 sentry has far lower health than a level 3 sentry, and is more quickly destroyed, the con of the weapon hardly gives a reason to use the default sapper over it, since it still disables and, after time, destroys sentries.

***Start here if you hate reading***
I think, in order to balance this weapon, it's downgrade time should be fixed to it's proper 3 seconds, instead of 1.7. In addition, I saw another poster suggesting a "cooldown" for the RTR. This seems like a good idea. If the RTR could only be used only every 3-5 seconds on a cooldown, it would provide sufficient reason for Spies to consider using the default sapper instead, as well as giving Engies a fighting chance against spies wielding them.
Zoxphyl Dec 31, 2012 @ 2:44pm 
Originally posted by Hank Peggy Bobby Luanne:
Nope. It doesn't. It keeps people from murdering countless n00bs with a robot on a tripod. It forces engies not to camp. All of these things are good.
Um, Engineers are SUPPOSED to camp, at least somewhat.

"Some class-based games encourage camping; for instance, in Team Fortress Classic and Team Fortress 2, the Engineer (who builds and tends automated, immobile sentry turrets) is suited to fighting from a fixed position."
-From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camping_(video_gaming)
{ZMC} Dragon-of-Metal Dec 31, 2012 @ 2:57pm 
What if the Red Tape Recorder had to recharge after every use? That recharge time could be as quick as a Guillotine charge or as slow as a melted Spycicle. It would be a hindrance to sapper spamming spies at least.
Wizard Dec 31, 2012 @ 3:02pm 
I put in my comment that it would at least be a bit more balanced if it had a recharge time. I think it's a good idea.
Mucinex Dec 31, 2012 @ 3:03pm 
Originally posted by {ZMC} Dragon-of-Metal:
What if the Red Tape Recorder had to recharge after every use? That recharge time could be as quick as a Guillotine charge or as slow as a melted Spycicle. It would be a hindrance to sapper spamming spies at least.
That idea ain't half bad,
TheGoodTheBadAndTheGibus (banned) Dec 31, 2012 @ 3:07pm 
Originally posted by cristian_hotmail:
I have the Red-Tape Recorder and I think is not so bad
Becuase you're the one using it, not receiving it.
Ghost Dec 31, 2012 @ 3:08pm 
How about we nerf it on the regular gameplay end and buff it on the MvM end? I'd sort of like for it to make robots move backwards, it would be great against those giant Scouts.
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Date Posted: Dec 28, 2012 @ 1:43pm
Posts: 62