A6V Ostrich Mar 15, 2013 @ 10:37am
Dem crits and the pyro: WHY VALVE WHY
Ok I know this is a little late to be posting this, but this is something that is pretty obvious. Every class at least has 1-2 weapons that get guaranteed crits, wether it is the market gardener for soldier or the K.G.B for heavy, every class has one. One thing I do not understand though is that there is one exeption to the rule: The pyro. The pyro is not left out, oh no, quite the contrairy. The pyro has the following weapons as guaranteed crits: The backburner, the phlog, the flaregun, the axtinguisher, the electric sign thing (forgot the name damn it) and the man melter. Yup. 6 weapons with guaranteed crits. 3x-6x more than the average class. WHY VALVE WHY? I dont understand why the pyro gets all these weapons that have guaranteed crits when all that the scout has is the guillotine and other classes only have 1 or 2 weapons like that. It does not make any sense. These crit weapons for pyro are also very easy to use while crit weapons for other classes like the soldier have the market gardener which is a pain in the ♥♥♥ to do especially if the enemy know where you are! I just don't understand why the pyro gets 6 crit weapons while other classes get 1-2 weapons. And that is the end of this. This is not a butthurt message. This is only my opinion. So leave your comments bellow and tell me what do you think about this.
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Death Mar 15, 2013 @ 10:52am 
Only 2 of those actually get used though:
Axtinguisher
Flare Gun


Now let's see who actually uses the other weapons:

Backburner: Noobs, people who are practicing timed airblasts and the occasional ambusher who actually uses Backburner to ambush. The only group of people who commonly use Backburner (noobs) don't even take advantage of the guarenteed crits.

Phlogistinator: Noobs, people who like using weird loadouts. Again, the majority of people that use it fall into the noob group, and the people who like using weird loadouts don't have it around with them everywhere they go, they might switch to a good loadout from time to time.

Manmelter: Nearly no one except maybe Phlog users. Just get a flamethrower than can airblast and use a Flare Gun. No longer a good reason to use Manmelter anymore.

Neon Annihilator: Pyrosharks. You can really only find Pyrosharks in levels with water, and not too much of them either. In fact, they are probably one of the rarest things in the game. No worrying about those buggers.

All the other weapons from other classes that give guarenteed crits are at least decent. Only 2 out of 6 of Pyro's guarenteed crit weapons are good. The other 4 are terrible.

EDIT: Also, doesn't the Spy also have a lot of weapons that can guarentee crits? Every single knife of his has guarenteed crits, plus his Ambassador. The Sniper's headshots also count as critical hits, as well as his Cleaner's Carbine, which does give out guarenteed crits, plus the Bushwacka.

So the Spy has 6 weapons with guarenteed crits (not counting reskins of weapons)
And the Sniper has 7, the most in the game. Sorry if this post sounds rude.
Last edited by Death; Mar 15, 2013 @ 10:59am
Ice Mar 15, 2013 @ 10:57am 
I agree with you completely, pyro has too many crit weapons, I think the degreaser should be nerfed to give people a chance against those combo ♥♥♥♥♥s who get crits 24/7
A6V Ostrich Mar 15, 2013 @ 10:58am 
Originally posted by Living Hellfire:
Only 2 of those actually get used though:
Axtinguisher
Flare Gun


Now let's see who actually uses the other weapons:

Backburner: Noobs, people who are practicing timed airblasts and the occasional ambusher who actually uses Backburner to ambush. The only group of people who commonly use Backburner (noobs) don't even take advantage of the guarenteed crits.

Phlogistinator: Noobs, people who like using weird loadouts. Again, the majority of people that use it fall into the noob group, and the people who like using weird loadouts don't have it around with them everywhere they go, they might switch to a good loadout from time to time.

Manmelter: Nearly no one except maybe Phlog users. Just get a flamethrower than can airblast and use a Flare Gun. No longer a good reason to use Manmelter anymore.

Neon Annihilator: Pyrosharks. You can really only find Pyrosharks in levels with water, and not too much of them either. In fact, they are probably one of the rarest things in the game. No worrying about those buggers.

All the other weapons from other classes that give guarenteed crits are at least decent. Only 2 out of 6 of Pyro's guarenteed crit weapons are good. The other 4 are terrible.
I see where you are getting at, and I agree that most of the people I see using the backburner and the phlog have a gibus, no hat at all, or just charge at people and don't use the bonuses. What I am saying is that why did valve make the pyro like this not why people use these. Even though most of these aren't used alot, A smart player who uses them wisely can easily pull off crits all the time. That right there is something I don't get.
A6V Ostrich Mar 15, 2013 @ 11:00am 
Originally posted by Ice0x:
I agree with you completely, pyro has too many crit weapons, I think the degreaser should be nerfed to give people a chance against those combo ♥♥♥♥♥s who get crits 24/7
Well the degreaser is only used to aid these items in obtaining crits, so I dont see the point of nerfing the degreaser. These weapons though are quite nasty if you know how to use them.
Death Mar 15, 2013 @ 11:01am 
Originally posted by Glorious_Guns:
Originally posted by Living Hellfire:
Only 2 of those actually get used though:
Axtinguisher
Flare Gun


Now let's see who actually uses the other weapons:

Backburner: Noobs, people who are practicing timed airblasts and the occasional ambusher who actually uses Backburner to ambush. The only group of people who commonly use Backburner (noobs) don't even take advantage of the guarenteed crits.

Phlogistinator: Noobs, people who like using weird loadouts. Again, the majority of people that use it fall into the noob group, and the people who like using weird loadouts don't have it around with them everywhere they go, they might switch to a good loadout from time to time.

Manmelter: Nearly no one except maybe Phlog users. Just get a flamethrower than can airblast and use a Flare Gun. No longer a good reason to use Manmelter anymore.

Neon Annihilator: Pyrosharks. You can really only find Pyrosharks in levels with water, and not too much of them either. In fact, they are probably one of the rarest things in the game. No worrying about those buggers.

All the other weapons from other classes that give guarenteed crits are at least decent. Only 2 out of 6 of Pyro's guarenteed crit weapons are good. The other 4 are terrible.
I see where you are getting at, and I agree that most of the people I see using the backburner and the phlog have a gibus, no hat at all, or just charge at people and don't use the bonuses. What I am saying is that why did valve make the pyro like this not why people use these. Even though most of these aren't used alot, A smart player who uses them wisely can easily pull off crits all the time. That right there is something I don't get.

So you're not complaining about balance, you're just complaining about why Pyro get's so much special treatment when it comes to crits? That is something I actually agree with, so I'll stop arguing. Pyro get's way too much crit weapons for a class that's not revolved around crits like Spy or Sniper.
A6V Ostrich Mar 15, 2013 @ 11:02am 
@Living Hellfire That is exactly what I am saying.
Death Mar 15, 2013 @ 11:05am 
Although to be fair, Pyro doesn't really have much firepower without crits compared to other classes. Maybe Valve might think they have a sense of balancing classes and thought "Meh, Pyro doesn't seem to be capable of dealing damage like Demoman, Heavy or Solder can...hey, why not release a bunch of weapons that can guarentee crits!"

When you think about it, Backburner, Flare Gun and Axtinguisher were all released on the same update.
Last edited by Death; Mar 15, 2013 @ 11:06am
KrayolaBlu Mar 15, 2013 @ 11:09am 
A stock flamethrower user coming from behind can kill any class almost as fast as a backburner user. People die almost as fast, it's just that backburner's give people a reason to complain.

Originally posted by Living Hellfire:
Phlogistinator: Noobs, people who like using weird loadouts. Again, the majority of people that use it fall into the noob group, and the people who like using weird loadouts don't have it around with them everywhere they go, they might switch to a good loadout from time to time.

I hate the phlog though. I once saw a phlog user mow down three heavies head-on. So they were all shooting at the phlog user. What could the heavies do? Run away? Nope, they couldn't. Well, One tried. I just feel that a class shouldn't be able to kill three heavies head-on (point-blank without ambushing or support).
Last edited by KrayolaBlu; Mar 15, 2013 @ 11:12am
A6V Ostrich Mar 15, 2013 @ 11:12am 
@Living Hellfire That is true though. A pyro can be easily be outclassed by classes that have more health or more firepower like heavies or demos, and that 3 of the crit weapons were released on the same update, but the pyro is meant for ambushing players, and if you just hold the fire button down on your flamethrower (w+m1, but still) you can severily damage classes and possibly kill them if they do not know you are there. Some of these weapons like the backburner, actually help with this but weapons like the neon annihilator have no reason to exist. Pyros deal WITH FIRE. When will you ever be in the water as someone who deal with FIRE?
KrayolaBlu Mar 15, 2013 @ 11:22am 
Originally posted by Glorious_Guns:
but weapons like the neon annihilator have no reason to exist. Pyros deal WITH FIRE. When will you ever be in the water as someone who deal with FIRE?

I wanted Neon Annihilator to be useful very much before and I was in denial for a while. It was suppose to make Pyro's able to combat underwater. But it was just horrible. All maps never really have much water. You also move slowly underwater and shotguns are ultimately better.

Originally posted by Glorious_Guns:
A pyro can be easily be outclassed by classes that have more health or more firepower like heavies or demos, and that 3 of the crit weapons were released on the same update, but the pyro is meant for ambushing players

"I hate the phlog though. I once saw a phlog user mow down three heavies head-on. So they were all shooting at the phlog user. What could the heavies do? Run away? Nope, they couldn't. Well, One tried. I just feel that a class shouldn't be able to kill three heavies head-on (point-blank without ambushing or support)."

Originally posted by Living Hellfire:
EDIT: Also, doesn't the Spy also have a lot of weapons that can guarentee crits? Every single knife of his has guarenteed crits, plus his Ambassador. The Sniper's headshots also count as critical hits, as well as his Cleaner's Carbine, which does give out guarenteed crits, plus the Bushwacka.

So the Spy has 6 weapons with guarenteed crits (not counting reskins of weapons)
And the Sniper has 7, the most in the game. Sorry if this post sounds rude.

Originally posted by Living Hellfire:
That is something I actually agree with, so I'll stop arguing. Pyro get's way too much crit weapons for a class that's not revolved around crits like Spy or Sniper.
Last edited by KrayolaBlu; Mar 15, 2013 @ 11:26am
Renomaki Mar 15, 2013 @ 11:39am 
Originally posted by Vellocet:
Originally posted by Glorious_Guns:
but weapons like the neon annihilator have no reason to exist. Pyros deal WITH FIRE. When will you ever be in the water as someone who deal with FIRE?

I wanted Neon Annihilator to be useful very much before and I was in denial for a while. It was suppose to make Pyro's able to combat underwater. But it was just horrible. All maps never really have much water. You also move slowly underwater and shotguns are ultimately better.

Ah, but you see, it isn't just for nicking people in water (Which, when it does happen, it hurts a lot). It also is a good TOOL for removing sappers. If there are no other engies around to remove it, and you still have time, you can take a second out of your day to rip it off for him. He'd be thankful in the end for your kindness.

And, even then... How often do people melee as pyro anyways? Is it really a big deal which melee weapon they use? Most of the time I use my Neon as a tool more than a weapon anyways.
A6V Ostrich Mar 15, 2013 @ 11:41am 
Originally posted by Renomaki:
Originally posted by Vellocet:


And, even then... How often do people melee as pyro anyways? Is it really a big deal which melee weapon they use? Most of the time I use my Neon as a tool more than a weapon anyways.
*cough* axtinguisher *cough*
A6V Ostrich Mar 15, 2013 @ 11:42am 
Kind of failed there renomaki did not say that
Jellu Mar 15, 2013 @ 11:44am 
The crit weapons are kinda guilty pleasure... The loud crit sound feel so awarding but the way you achieved it feel a bit cheap and effortless, even more when you use the puff 'n sting (Degreaser/Axtingusher). The only weapon that's really boring and unbalanced is the axtingusher; Insta-crit enemies on fire with no drawback what-so-ever... I agree with you pyro's crit gimmick is a bit too massive, pyro is no longer pyro... He is an axe swinging crit maniac...
A6V Ostrich Mar 15, 2013 @ 11:45am 
Originally posted by Living Hellfire:
Only 2 of those actually get used though:


So the Spy has 6 weapons with guarenteed crits (not counting reskins of weapons)
And the Sniper has 7, the most in the game. Sorry if this post sounds rude.
Well those have guaranteed crits but the knives for spy and the rifles for sniper do not count. Why? Because they all do the same thing. Besides the sleeper, every single sniper rifle has guaranteed crits on headshots and the spy's knives insta kill on backstab. That's the way the game was made. The pyro on the other hand has no reasons for his crit weapons.
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Date Posted: Mar 15, 2013 @ 10:37am
Posts: 112