iQTest™ Mar 14, 2013 @ 4:57pm
Scammer Baiting?
Alright, so before I start I want to establish that if you are reading this you think that scammers are horrible. If you don't think that I hope you are kidding yourself. Now that that is out of the way let me suggest something.

There are many real life scenarios where cops fill a car with all sorts of stuff to steal, and I believe it is called a honeypot (bears like honey, attracts stuff etc). The thieves would steal it, then get captured on tape by cameras hidden in the car.

Valve could potentially do this, asking for volunteers (or perhaps make accounts themselves?) with valuable stuff and seem gullible. I say Valve and not any other community because they have the power to delete hats and whatnot, so if scammed they can just delete scammed hat, ban, repeat. Many scammers could be caught from this.

This wouldn't even have any problems arising from innocent people because Valve could just say that it was a planned Valve thing and then trade back(maybe something else? idk this would be the big thing stopping them).

I've had this idea for a long time now,a nd just putting it out there for opinions. I don't mind counters, as long as they are not stupid (such as HURR DURR I BELIEVE SACAMMERS ARE GOOD that type).

So, any ideas?
Showing 1-15 of 41 comments
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skeryhet Mar 14, 2013 @ 5:05pm 
That's not a bad idea.
As an addition, they should have bots that simulate Unusual uncrates to ward off sharkers.
iQTest™ Mar 14, 2013 @ 5:07pm 
Originally posted by SomeWittyUsername:
That's not a bad idea.
As an addition, they should have bots that simulate Unusual uncrates to ward off sharkers.

Yes, that is an even better idea IMO, much easier to execute.
vprincemike Mar 14, 2013 @ 5:09pm 
i got no idea what you're talking about. maybe it's because my game is still loading
End Mar 14, 2013 @ 5:11pm 
It sounds good on paper but its really not good.

There's a difference between greed and scamming,

Say your in a server and you say you are selling an unusual for 1 weapon,
I gauruntee every single person in the server will send a trade request.
Octavia Mar 14, 2013 @ 5:13pm 
Originally posted by SomeWittyUsername:
That's not a bad idea.
As an addition, they should have bots that simulate Unusual uncrates to ward off sharkers.

Sharks are a perfectly legitimate part of trading; if you're going to try and enforce morals, I'm going to ask you to justify them with in-game facts. There is no assigned value to any item, so traders can ask whatever they want; if someone is hasty, ignorant or foolish and don't look up prices before trading it, then you may end up with a bad deal.

Once Valve begins to implement a system that prevents trades with a certain value disparity from happening, then you may have a leg to stand on; otherwise, in a free-market economy, there's no justification to prevent sharking, since scamming is direct misleading and lies, while sharking is preying on people who lack knowledge.

It's a different matter, and while I agree with preventing scams in such a manner, it is completely ridiculous to enforce it in any other matter; even then, it does seem rather extreme and it would be inefficient, because Valve would either need to hire people or deal with potentially corrupt players working for them. With the nature of the accusations, it'd be very difficult to keep a good 'staff' of players, not to mention make their accounts easily targeted.
skeryhet Mar 14, 2013 @ 5:13pm 
Originally posted by End:
It sounds good on paper but its really not good.

There's a difference between greed and scamming,

Say your in a server and you say you are selling an unusual for 1 weapon,
I gauruntee every single person in the server will send a trade request.
In this hypothetical situation, the bots will not say anything.
iQTest™ Mar 14, 2013 @ 5:13pm 
Originally posted by End:
It sounds good on paper but its really not good.

There's a difference between greed and scamming,

Say your in a server and you say you are selling an unusual for 1 weapon,
I gauruntee every single person in the server will send a trade request.


That's not what I meant. If you are referrign to me, I am talking about prices just below reasonable prices, such as 11 buds for a 13 bud unusual. and they only take action AFTER the scam has been executed.
iQTest™ Mar 14, 2013 @ 5:18pm 
Originally posted by Octavia:
Originally posted by SomeWittyUsername:
That's not a bad idea.
As an addition, they should have bots that simulate Unusual uncrates to ward off sharkers.

Sharks are a perfectly legitimate part of trading; if you're going to try and enforce morals, I'm going to ask you to justify them with in-game facts. There is no assigned value to any item, so traders can ask whatever they want; if someone is hasty, ignorant or foolish and don't look up prices before trading it, then you may end up with a bad deal.

Once Valve begins to implement a system that prevents trades with a certain value disparity from happening, then you may have a leg to stand on; otherwise, in a free-market economy, there's no justification to prevent sharking, since scamming is direct misleading and lies, while sharking is preying on people who lack knowledge.

It's a different matter, and while I agree with preventing scams in such a manner, it is completely ridiculous to enforce it in any other matter; even then, it does seem rather extreme and it would be inefficient, because Valve would either need to hire people or deal with potentially corrupt players working for them. With the nature of the accusations, it'd be very difficult to keep a good 'staff' of players, not to mention make their accounts easily targeted.


That is some good counters there, but to this I would say:
1. It doesnt have to be bots or players, it could be just additional employees from seam support controlling these accounts.
2. Sharking is considered as markable on steamrep, and I would say that that has a significant effect on who will/will not trade with you.
KittenSlayer64 /)(\ Mar 14, 2013 @ 5:18pm 
Originally posted by SomeWittyUsername:
That's not a bad idea.
As an addition, they should have bots that simulate Unusual uncrates to ward off sharkers.

Nice idea. However, valve must make sure it doesn't happen too often. Becuase, scammer might get suspicious if they see it happening on every server.
iQTest™ Mar 14, 2013 @ 5:20pm 
Originally posted by Kitten Slayer:
Originally posted by SomeWittyUsername:
That's not a bad idea.
As an addition, they should have bots that simulate Unusual uncrates to ward off sharkers.

Nice idea. However, valve must make sure it doesn't happen too often. Becuase, scammer might get suspicious if they see it happening on every server.

Yeah, but a scammer won't be on every server at once will they? I do agree it shouldn't be very close together or they should ahev different accounts.
skeryhet Mar 14, 2013 @ 5:20pm 
Originally posted by Kitten Slayer:
Originally posted by SomeWittyUsername:
That's not a bad idea.
As an addition, they should have bots that simulate Unusual uncrates to ward off sharkers.

Nice idea. However, valve must make sure it doesn't happen too often. Becuase, scammer might get suspicious if they see it happening on every server.
These bots would be rare; maybe only 5-10 of them and they would go only on Valve-official servers, swapping servers every 10-50 minuites.
Last edited by skeryhet; Mar 14, 2013 @ 5:21pm
Octavia Mar 14, 2013 @ 5:21pm 
Originally posted by iQTest™:
2. Sharking is considered as markable on steamrep, and I would say that that has a significant effect on who will/will not trade with you.

It shouldn't be; if it is, then there's clearly a very big flaw in Valve's ideas, because they should then implement a way for items to be directly priced in a trade, and thus prevent this 'scam'. Values are subjective, and I can find an Unusual worth a few Strange weapons to me, while it is valued at a Bud for others; when you begin to enforce strict values based on third-parties who may or may not be correct, it's not a free-market economy, and Team Fortress 2 currently is.

If Steam-rep considers sharking a 'scam', then they seriously need to re-evaluate the way trading as a whole works, because that's a ludicrous and incredibly ridiculous opinion that has no sort of justification with the current trading system.
skeryhet Mar 14, 2013 @ 5:24pm 
Originally posted by Octavia:
Originally posted by iQTest™:
2. Sharking is considered as markable on steamrep, and I would say that that has a significant effect on who will/will not trade with you.

It shouldn't be; if it is, then there's clearly a very big flaw in Valve's ideas, because they should then implement a way for items to be directly priced in a trade, and thus prevent this 'scam'. Values are subjective, and I can find an Unusual worth a few Strange weapons to me, while it is valued at a Bud for others; when you begin to enforce strict values based on third-parties who may or may not be correct, it's not a free-market economy, and Team Fortress 2 currently is.

If Steam-rep considers sharking a 'scam', then they seriously need to re-evaluate the way trading as a whole works, because that's a ludicrous and incredibly ridiculous opinion that has no sort of justification with the current trading system.
How is scamming new players considered not bad in your opinion? Would you like to be conned out of something worth easily a couple hundred bucks?
Last edited by skeryhet; Mar 14, 2013 @ 5:24pm
Octavia Mar 14, 2013 @ 5:33pm 
Originally posted by SomeWittyUsername:
How is scamming new players considered not bad in your opinion? Would you like to be conned out of something worth easily a couple hundred bucks?

Scams involve deception; if I say an item is worth a certain amount, then I am completely fine in saying that since value is subjective. If you don't comprehend that fact, then you're already wrong; assume that you do, and look at it in a real life scenario. If someone charges you ten dollars for a bag of chips, do you get to report them after you buy it because they're only worth two dollars? No, of course not, because you had the option of informing yourself before purchasing them; same concept here.

Values are subjective, and if someone trades in haste I see no reason to feel sorry for them, because it's not a scam; poor decision morally? Perhaps, but morals are subjective, and this is a free-market economy; then Valve directly implements a value for each item and prevents trades that exceed a certain profit for each party, then perhaps you'll have some convincing arguments, but until then, you've got nothing but opinions without facts.
asushotgex Mar 14, 2013 @ 5:34pm 
i like the honey pot, both as a police tactic and because its got honey in it. the forseable problem i would see with this is that while scammers are bad no questioning that by leaving accounts decicated to luring scammers a good amount of innocent traders could be caught in the cross-hairs. lets say someone scams a hat off one of these honey pot account, they knew what the hat was worth lets say 1.66 ref scammer gets it for 0.66-.88 ref he underpayed significantly off this "honey pot" and could univerally be frowned apon and be banned no question chat log and trade history will be their he scammed simple as that. now on the flip lets say a new player (np1) trying to go by tf2 spreedsheet or tf2.bp wants to buy a hat from a equally or more experinced (slightly) player (np2). np1 buys a hat from np2 thats worth 1.66 but pays 1 ref less then what its worth but not something worth calling a scam right? but np2 feels that he was scammed and reports this player np1 to a community or account that is a honey pot. now if that same np1 was lured by a trader looking to sell a hat while claiming not to know its value and np1 wants to try and buy the hat for 1 ref same scenario with np2 but now instead of what was obvious naive behavior is seen as scamming and this np1 could be banned from trading because he is believed to be scamming. dont sound very fair right? i believe the current system while flawed is still effective valve has threads rules and warnings about these things we have communities that help acclimate player to these scammers make them aware that people will try to get them to give them their stuff. what valve should implement is a required trading tutorial, when a player starts his first trade (one time only) a 30 second video starts relaying the rules to trading valve has in place for trading, a warning about scammers and a acknowledgement of these issues that must be clicked and reclicked as acknowledged then that player is free to trade he was warned and if he foregoe that warning that should be on him. plus at some point we all have been scammed anyways and made the conscious decision to never let that happen again. anyway i have gone on long enough so


TLTO; new naive player accidentally marked and banned as scammer, valve should make a one time trade acknowledgment for new players covering basic trade policy and scammers. we have all been scammed and done something to try stop it from every happening again.
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Date Posted: Mar 14, 2013 @ 4:57pm
Posts: 41