Team Fortress 2
NohNameHere Sep 2, 2014 @ 5:36pm
Hitboxes and other things that need fixing
I've been trying to get better with the Ambassador lately and practicing on tr_walkway has made me realise something I haven't thought about in a long: Hitboxes need to be fixedy.

I know I might be beating a dead horse, but with Valve's recent decisions to remove jumping from snipers right after they shoot, the now-reverted (but still fondly remembered) sticky launcher nerf and the other little tweeks to things most people probably didn't even think of as broken that have been going on recently, maybe enough talk about this (or other issues) might get them to do something about it.

I mean, it seems reasonable that when shooting at the head of a character from any angle besides straight on, I should still be able to get a headshot without feeling like I have to shoot at the air around the character's head, back and shoulders and hope something happens. If nothing else, it would be nice not to be taunted by the bullet wounds of shots that should have landed.

I'll grant that, for most classes and most weapons, the hitboxes are generally close enough; but, with classes and weapons that require some more serious accuracy, the approximate relationship between the model and hitbox makes playing feel unintuitive.

Also, off the top of my head, a list of other things that I think should be looked at:

- Not having a command to display hitboxes in real time anymore (at least for local games)
- Hit detection for crits on the Market Gardener
- The Machina's damage bonus not only applying to headshots/penetration shots
- Melee range for various weapons and how their models reflect them
- Volume/Audible range for the non-DR watches
- The Mantreads being next-to-useless
- The Spycicle not stopping you from making noise if hit by fire without being lit up
- Projectile/Hitscan weapons not using the same hitboxes (if that possible to fix/change)
- The Phlogistonator
- Sticky bombs not needing to be stuck to something to do full damage
- Attacking through spawn gates working again (under certain circumstances)
- So on and so forth...

I guess I'll leave it at that. If anyone else wants to weigh in or talk about things they want fixed, feel free. I'm not saying I'm absolutley right or anything, this is just what I've noticed and thought was less than fantastic. Sorry for the wall of text.

TL;DR: TF2 is how old now? Yet, we still seem to have issues with fairly basic things while stuff no one really cares about (or wanted changed in the first place) is changed and "fixed."
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Showing 1-12 of 12 comments
The only thing that needs to be fixed for phlog is the fact that the flames don't animate or match the hitboxs.

Headshot hitbox issue might be a precision error from people moving.
Poop platter Sep 2, 2014 @ 5:43pm 
I really think the spy revolvers need fixing, so many times I fire directly at someone and it misses even though it was my first shot, it's ridiculous, also the mantreads need fixing like you said, sometimes when I land on people with them on I just slide off them and do no damage
Last edited by Poop platter; Sep 2, 2014 @ 5:43pm
"Client and server hitboxes don't exactly match because of small precision errors in time measurement. Even a small difference of a few milliseconds can cause an error of several inches for fast-moving objects. Multiplayer hit detection is not pixel perfect and has known precision limitations based on the tickrate and the speed of moving objects.

The question arises, why is hit detection so complicated on the server? Doing the back tracking of player positions and dealing with precision errors while hit detection could be done client-side way easier and with pixel precision. The client would just tell the server with a "hit" message what player has been hit and where. We can't allow that simply because a game server can't trust the clients on such important decisions. Even if the client is "clean" and protected by Valve Anti-Cheat, the packets could be still modified on a 3rd machine while routed to the game server. These "cheat proxies" could inject "hit" messages into the network packet without being detected by VAC (a "man-in-the-middle" attack)."https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Source_Multiplayer_Networking
Last edited by MA☝Omgwtfbbqstfu™; Sep 2, 2014 @ 5:46pm
NohNameHere Sep 2, 2014 @ 5:49pm 
Originally posted by MA☝Omgwtfbbqstfu™:
"Client and server hitboxes don't exactly match because of small precision errors in time measurement. Even a small difference of a few milliseconds can..."
I get that, but I was playing a local game (with a ping between 0 and 3 and no other players besides bots to practice on) and the discrepancies between the hitbox and model caused a considerable difference. I understand not letting the client tell the server what happened; but when they're both the same (me playing alone), it only highlights an issue with hit detection.
NohNameHere Sep 2, 2014 @ 5:50pm 
Originally posted by Mechanized dinoid sargent:
I really think the spy revolvers need fixing, so many times I fire directly at someone and it misses even though it was my first shot, it's ridiculous, also the mantreads need fixing like you said, sometimes when I land on people with them on I just slide off them and do no damage
If I had a nickel for every time that thing with the Mantreads happened to me...I'd have, like, $20 and some change.
slop Sep 2, 2014 @ 6:03pm 
walkway bots use the standing hitboxes, even when moving iirc
Originally posted by slop:
walkway bots use the standing hitboxes, even when moving iirc

http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Walkway
Yea guess ur right.



Originally posted by Doublewalk LaserKlan:
Originally posted by MA☝Omgwtfbbqstfu™:
"Client and server hitboxes don't exactly match because of small precision errors in time measurement. Even a small difference of a few milliseconds can..."
I get that, but I was playing a local game (with a ping between 0 and 3 and no other players besides bots to practice on) and the discrepancies between the hitbox and model caused a considerable difference. I understand not letting the client tell the server what happened; but when they're both the same (me playing alone), it only highlights an issue with hit detection.

Well as you can see above, bots may not tell the correct story, and who knows if there is any "simulated" lag going on with bots.

What matters is consistency, and if everyone has an equal chance at this then its not really unfair. To be honest people already get too many headshots on people, it should be harder. The game really would be broken if people got headshots even more often than they do now, lets not pretend random headshot insta kills aren't a constant issue in the game. No ones being robbed of a super rare sniper hit, snipers hit all the time.
Last edited by MA☝Omgwtfbbqstfu™; Sep 2, 2014 @ 6:19pm
Originally posted by Mechanized dinoid sargent:
I really think the spy revolvers need fixing, so many times I fire directly at someone and it misses even though it was my first shot, it's ridiculous, also the mantreads need fixing like you said, sometimes when I land on people with them on I just slide off them and do no damage
THANK YOU I'M NOT CRAZY
Originally posted by MA☝Omgwtfbbqstfu™:
"Client and server hitboxes don't exactly match because of small precision errors in time measurement. Even a small difference of a few milliseconds can cause an error of several inches for fast-moving objects. Multiplayer hit detection is not pixel perfect and has known precision limitations based on the tickrate and the speed of moving objects.
Which is why the Baby Face Blaster needs rethinking... it just breaks their hitboxes.
Originally posted by Clear Vision™:
Originally posted by MA☝Omgwtfbbqstfu™:
"Client and server hitboxes don't exactly match because of small precision errors in time measurement. Even a small difference of a few milliseconds can cause an error of several inches for fast-moving objects. Multiplayer hit detection is not pixel perfect and has known precision limitations based on the tickrate and the speed of moving objects.
Which is why the Baby Face Blaster needs rethinking... it just breaks their hitboxes.

Yea I consider the thing to be a lag exploit
NohNameHere Sep 2, 2014 @ 7:07pm 
Originally posted by MA☝Omgwtfbbqstfu™:
Originally posted by Clear Vision™:
Which is why the Baby Face Blaster needs rethinking... it just breaks their hitboxes.

Yea I consider the thing to be a lag exploit
Wow, that never even dawned on me. I always thought they were harder to hit just because they were faster. I mean, technically, that's right...but not in the way it should be.
NohNameHere Sep 2, 2014 @ 8:02pm 
Well, this fizzled out quickly...
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Date Posted: Sep 2, 2014 @ 5:36pm
Posts: 12