Team Fortress 2
Champion C May 11, 2014 @ 3:33pm
Degreaser
The degreaser to me seems a bit... op. Now, before anyone says "there's a damage penalty. that's balanced." the damage the FT does is irrelevant. People use it primarily for combos. Not W+M1. It's getting fairly annoying. I think that there should be a delay between an airblast and when you can switch weapons.
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Beyoncé May 11, 2014 @ 3:34pm 
You mean the Degreaser/Flare/Axting combo?
The major debuff for that one is that whenever you use that combo, you are cheaper than a pack of Ramen Noodles.
Bipolar Cormorant May 11, 2014 @ 3:38pm 
To sum it up, as annoying as it is, at higher level play Pyro tends to be a bit of a setting duck without being able to burst. If you nerf the degreaser you make the class less annoying in your general pub setting but you also hurt the Pyro competitively.
Beyoncé May 11, 2014 @ 3:39pm 
Originally posted by Bipolar Cormorant:
To sum it up, as annoying as it is, at higher level play Pyro tends to be a bit of a setting duck without being able to burst. If you nerf the degreaser you make the class less annoying in your general pub setting but you also hurt the Pyro competitively.
Competitive Pyro
You know there are other ways to play pyro other than M1+W and Cheap Seat.
Chair May 11, 2014 @ 3:39pm 
Just in case someone wants to be talked down to by a dismissive jerk, I'm right here.

All you need to do is utilize the terms "Degreaser" and "overpowered" in one sentence, and I'll be right there.

:3
Champion C May 11, 2014 @ 3:39pm 
Originally posted by {SDC} TheMightyGibus:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lITBGjNEp08
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvdf5n-zI14
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_9XBWgO2LE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sg-wtsocxHY
Magnificent contribution my good sir! [/sarcasm]



Originally posted by GarnetSnatcher:
You mean the Degreaser/Flare/Axting combo?
The major debuff for that one is that whenever you use that combo, you are cheaper than a pack of Ramen Noodles.

Exactly what I'm saying.

Originally posted by Balloon4646:
FOR THIS ONE TIME ONLY, LET'S AGREE WITH THIS GUY INSTEAD OF PROVING HER WRONG. JUST FOR LAUGHS

Imma dude.
stupendous man (Banned) May 11, 2014 @ 3:42pm 
damn straight
stupendous man (Banned) May 11, 2014 @ 3:43pm 
Originally posted by Balloon4646:
FOR THIS ONE TIME ONLY, LET'S AGREE WITH THIS GUY INSTEAD OF PROVING HER WRONG. JUST FOR LAUGHS
prove us wrong :>
Spades (Banned) May 11, 2014 @ 3:43pm 
Dude, I won't nerf Degreaser, I nerf Axtinguisher. Make it have a significant slower swing speed.
Champion C May 11, 2014 @ 3:43pm 
Originally posted by le funi mastur trole :^):
Originally posted by Balloon4646:
FOR THIS ONE TIME ONLY, LET'S AGREE WITH THIS GUY INSTEAD OF PROVING HER WRONG. JUST FOR LAUGHS
prove us wrong :>
Agreed. Do it.
Champion C May 11, 2014 @ 3:44pm 
Originally posted by {SDC} TheMightyGibus:
Dude, I won't nerf Degreaser, I nerf Axtinguisher. Make it have a significant slower swing speed.
Against one target? No difference.
Spades (Banned) May 11, 2014 @ 3:44pm 
Originally posted by =(e)= Raze:
Originally posted by {SDC} TheMightyGibus:
Dude, I won't nerf Degreaser, I nerf Axtinguisher. Make it have a significant slower swing speed.
Against one target? No difference.
Lone targets are easy to get, no matter what flamethrower.
Last edited by Spades; May 11, 2014 @ 3:45pm
Champion C May 11, 2014 @ 3:45pm 
Originally posted by {SDC} TheMightyGibus:
Originally posted by =(e)= Raze:
Against one target? No difference.
Lone targets are easy to get, no matter what flamethrower.
*cough* heavy *cough cough*
AzureMajora May 11, 2014 @ 3:45pm 
If you're actually good you can most likely kill a pyro before it even ignites you.
Chair May 11, 2014 @ 3:46pm 
I'm ready to talk about Deg/Axt nerf suggestions as soon as someone manages to provide a logical reason as to why handing a class, that's restricted to close range, burst-damage that's on-par with other classes' at that range was in any way too powerful, not solely in comparison to the Pyro's stock weapons, but to the rest of the game.

By itself, "It's the best option for that slot, no alternative can compare" is not a valid argument for a nerf - unless you'd consider nerfing down the stock Rocketlauncher or the Stock Sniperrifle, both arguably the best available options for their slot, down to their sub-par alternatives' level of utility would be a smart thing to do. And yeah, attempting to balance the Sniper's primaries around the Sidney Sleeper, or the Soldier's around the Liberty Launcher is actually not all that smart on my cap.

So what about the rest of the game? Well, just look around: Scout's default primary does comparable damage in comparable time at the same range, just that it doesn't take up more than one loadout slot, and ships as drawback-free stock item of one of the game's most mobile classes.
Or the Demo's Gdenadelauncher: It deals comparable damage within comparable time at any range you manage to land hits at, as a stock feature of a class that's way less range restricted than the Pyro, while still having the exact same healthpool and 93% of the Pyro's movespeed. And let's not forget that he's at the same time carrying the Stickylauncher, one of the game's most powerful weapons.

The Degreaser doesn't change the Pyro's designated tasks.
It doesn't flip over existing class-matchups.
It doesn't flat out improve the class' powerlevel either, like your typicall straight upgrade weapon does [i.e. Enforcer], no, it requires a different approach to combat, and a setup of at least two of the three loadout slots available to shine.
We can arguably come to the conclusion that the 10% damage reduction towards stock are next to negligible, alright, but yeah, being generally 'not-worse', and often better than stock does not equal being overpowered in comparison to the rest of the game [see: Solemn Vow, Third Degree] - on the contrary, it can just as well be an indicator that stock was a sub-par baseline to begin with.
Last edited by Chair; May 11, 2014 @ 3:48pm
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Date Posted: May 11, 2014 @ 3:33pm
Posts: 59