Team Fortress 2
Aids the Homosexual Delight May 9, 2014 @ 4:31pm
Is anyone else frustrated with valve on how they keep messing with tf2?
I haven't played tf2 in a while. Only started playing again after my little brother begged me to.

I honestly don't recognize this game from the last time I played it, which was less than a year ago. Why does valve feel the need to drastically change the gameplay every few months? It started with small things like 'weapons balance,' such as; making weapon 'X' do more damage than weapon 'Y' because weapon 'Z' was underpowered. Now it's evolved into outright revamps of core gameplay mechanics. Case in point Escape Plan & Equalizer. I'm still sore about the whole ordeal. Was the original Equalizer OP? Yeah kind of, did it deserve to be utterly ruined? No. I used to love doing solly suicide rush with Old Equalizer. Were alot of people using it to run from a fight? Yes, did it bother anyone? Not really. So why change it? Fine punish the cowards, make them take minicrits when their back is turned. But not everyone else who is using the weapon as intended. Same with Soda Popper. Why completely change a weapon's identity because its Overpowered? Why nerf it to hell over a small advantage it has?

Another thing that really bothers me is the inherit weakness of default weapons compared to their unlock counterparts. Name one reason for anyone to use anything else over Mad Milk? Pistol, if you have nothing else unlocked. Less so if you have the Shortstop. It seems to me that valve puts an idealic version of a weapon that they want into the game, then proceed to nerf it all to hell 6 months down the line, when everyone has it. They don't put any forethought into the design and relationship of weapons into the game. That's the same problem with Tribes and Planetside 2, and that's why I don't bother buying weapons in games anymore. It's an inherit flaw in F2P games with a cash shop; Make something god tier at first when sales are strongest then proceed to cut it down when sales drop.

Lastly Hats. Why are there so many hats in the game, but so few weapons? The workshop is filled with amazing weapons but why are so few are accepted? Don't get me wrong I love making my merc look as good as possible, but I wan't more than that. I want new gameplay horizons, I'm sick of hats. Let people vote on what they want in the game. I'm aching so bad for new scout and spy unlocks.

I spent nearly 1000$ in the Mann Co. store because I enjoyed this game immensely. I haven't bought anything in well over a year because of how shoddy the gameplay has become. Don't get me wrong I don't regret spending a single cent in the store. I recently started playing CS 1.6 again and after 10 years it remains the same great game it always was. I don't even have CS:GO because I'm afraid it'll end up like TF2. I bought AOE2:HD because I loved that game. I loved the forgotten DLC, and I will buy more DLC for that game because it's so damn good. Same with Borderlands 2 and Age of Mythology.

Valve lacks consistency. And it is this inconsitency which makes it hard for me to make any purchases in their ingame cash shops.

Please understand I am not trying enflame anybody. I am a customer stating my opinion.
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Showing 1-15 of 58 comments
FlipZFox May 9, 2014 @ 6:58pm 
CS:GO already became the next TF2, people wasting ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥s of money on keys, people scamming by the hour, 12-year-olds whining about being scammed, hackers, trading servers, overpriced skins, idling. These were some of the things that turned TF2 into a buzzkill, plus before Free-2-Play you had to buy the game while it still had a store, so I'm predicting CS:GO will go F2P like TF2 did and it'll just simply become a vicious cycle, up to the point where Valve will make -poor choices on gameplay mechanics and adding nothing but more community cosmetics.

I agree with everything but the soda popper, that thing got what it deserved. Plus I agree that the equalizer nerf was pretty damn harsh.
Last edited by FlipZFox; May 9, 2014 @ 6:59pm
Magick(M.Shock) May 9, 2014 @ 7:01pm 
i can agree with the point of there not being weapons in quite a long while and only being a overabundance of hats left with us it would be nice if valve added some new spy demo or heavy unlocks cause i love those classes!somebody at valve took a ♥♥♥♥ and said to themselves "ah maybe we should add an new hat!"somebody unboxed a unusual and is now selling it for.......YOU GEUSSED it MORE Hats BUDS anything within the hat variety.
Hold my Sandwich May 9, 2014 @ 7:37pm 
They don't accept more weapons because then the core gameplay would become bogged down with so much 'filler' that the game would be un-fun.

Someone the other day suggested a minigun with 100% faster firing rate and 50% less damage, but what's the point of that? It just does the same damage as the original minigun statistically. A scout shotgun with 10 rounds that reloads 25% slower? It would be the same as the default scattergun, just more spammey.

The weapons in-game are vastly different from one another, and while a little more substance would be nice, it's better than what games like Planetside 2 have (which I love PS2, don't get me wrong), where stock gun "X" does so-so damage, then you have all these in between guns that nobody uses because they're just 'meh', and some god-tier things that'll get nerfed in the future.

I think the community content in regards to maps has gone down tremendously though; I think what would really benefit for TF2 would be to optimize map load times; Most PC FPS's have horrid map download times, especially ones with custom content like CS:GO public servers and TF2. That would encourage custom-map servers and more user made content to be published and used globally.


Really, cosmetics do nothing to the game but add a 'side' thing to do, which is collect them. I think you've just masked your tiredness with the core content of the game with a hatred of 'new cosmetics'.
Last edited by Hold my Sandwich; May 9, 2014 @ 7:38pm
Aids the Homosexual Delight May 9, 2014 @ 7:37pm 
@liquid

Just because something is overpowered doesn't mean you have to completely gut it.

@book
I like cosmetics. I don't like having so many of them at a time when they detract from other gameplay elements. Also on weapons it's because people are out of ideas. Look at the brass beast. Awful stats, no imagination, but still a damn good weapon to use.
Last edited by Aids the Homosexual Delight; May 9, 2014 @ 8:06pm
Roi (Banned) May 9, 2014 @ 8:28pm 
You said TF2's gameplay was awful, if I'm correct.

Mind to elaborate? You sound really stupid saying, "this sucks, we need more of this, why'd they do that, bla bla bla" without providing any reasoning.

And don't complain about a F2p game not getting as much content as a paid one. It's a f2p game, be happy that it gets as much content and appreciation from the developers as it does.
Last edited by Roi; May 9, 2014 @ 8:30pm
Sandshark May 9, 2014 @ 8:30pm 
Originally posted by TheClamFace:
You said TF2's gameplay was awful, if I'm correct.
Mind to elaborate? You sound really stupid saying, "this sucks, we need more of this, why'd they do that, bla bla bla" without providing any reasoning.
Exactly
Aids the Homosexual Delight May 9, 2014 @ 8:49pm 
@clam

Long story short.

Valve changes what works into what does not work. And/or they overzealously nerf/buff weapons. There's no balance. And I'm hesitant to spend 5$ on a weapon in store to support the creator when I know, the weapon I buy today will not be the same tomorrow.

Name me one scout secondary better than the mad milk? You can't. Noone uses bonk, cola, winger, or other pistol, 90% of scouts who own milk have it equipped. On the flipside we have repetitive unlocks and reskins. Why does scout need 3 unlocks that allow him extra jumps? Soda, FaN, & Atomizer. Why? Wha'ts the point? One would be fine, two max, but three?

I feel that the weapons are not unique in enough from one another to warrant usage and purchase.

Look at Heavy, Why nerf his natascha? It was already pretty unpopular.

The gameplay is restrained. There's an artificial ceiling to what you can and can not do. Why does the eyelander's speed and health bonus top out at 4 heads? Why do engy and spy stored crits max out at 35? Why are there invisible walls to where you cannot jump too? It's annoying. I feel like there's no reward for skill in TF2.

Roi (Banned) May 9, 2014 @ 9:02pm 
Originally posted by Idle(Please leave a message):
@clam

Long story short.

Valve changes what works into what does not work. And/or they overzealously nerf/buff weapons. There's no balance. And I'm hesitant to spend 5$ on a weapon in store to support the creator when I know, the weapon I buy today will not be the same tomorrow.

Name me one scout secondary better than the mad milk? You can't. Noone uses bonk, cola, winger, or other pistol, 90% of scouts who own milk have it equipped. On the flipside we have repetitive unlocks and reskins. Why does scout need 3 unlocks that allow him extra jumps? Soda, FaN, & Atomizer. Why? Wha'ts the point? One would be fine, two max, but three?

I feel that the weapons are not unique in enough from one another to warrant usage and purchase.

Look at Heavy, Why nerf his natascha? It was already pretty unpopular.

The gameplay is restrained. There's an artificial ceiling to what you can and can not do. Why does the eyelander's speed and health bonus top out at 4 heads? Why do engy and spy stored crits max out at 35? Why are there invisible walls to where you cannot jump too? It's annoying. I feel like there's no reward for skill in TF2.
1- They only buff or nerf weapons that are unfair or too weak. The short circuit was buffed because it was not effective at its' job.
2- Each scout secondary is viable. Pistol works at finishing off what your scattergun can't, cola gives you free minicrits as long as you don't run into bullets, bonk allows to to push past choke points, the PPPP gives you health and fall invulnerability, etc.
3- They are very unique. No scout scatterguns are similar at all, for example.
4- They buffed it.
5- So you want invincible demoknights running at light speed? It's for the sake of balance.
Fino May 9, 2014 @ 9:04pm 
Originally posted by Idle(Please leave a message):
@clam

Long story short.

Valve changes what works into what does not work. And/or they overzealously nerf/buff weapons. There's no balance. And I'm hesitant to spend 5$ on a weapon in store to support the creator when I know, the weapon I buy today will not be the same tomorrow.

Name me one scout secondary better than the mad milk? You can't. Noone uses bonk, cola, winger, or other pistol, 90% of scouts who own milk have it equipped. On the flipside we have repetitive unlocks and reskins. Why does scout need 3 unlocks that allow him extra jumps? Soda, FaN, & Atomizer. Why? Wha'ts the point? One would be fine, two max, but three?

I feel that the weapons are not unique in enough from one another to warrant usage and purchase.

Look at Heavy, Why nerf his natascha? It was already pretty unpopular.

The gameplay is restrained. There's an artificial ceiling to what you can and can not do. Why does the eyelander's speed and health bonus top out at 4 heads? Why do engy and spy stored crits max out at 35? Why are there invisible walls to where you cannot jump too? It's annoying. I feel like there's no reward for skill in TF2.

By all means,tell me how mad milk makes you distract a sentry for your team to kill.Or how mad milk allows you to survive falls from extreme heights.
Scout has many unlocks that allow extra jumps because he is suposed to jump.The soda popper and the FAN also have a very different aproach to extra jumps.
The Sasha has been buffed too mate.
The Eyelander is capped because it would be completelly overpowered to have a demoman with a billion health moving at FTL speed,regardless of if he deserved the first kills.


Lieutenant Bananatits May 9, 2014 @ 9:05pm 
Originally posted by Idle(Please leave a message):
@clam

Long story short.

Valve changes what works into what does not work. And/or they overzealously nerf/buff weapons. There's no balance. And I'm hesitant to spend 5$ on a weapon in store to support the creator when I know, the weapon I buy today will not be the same tomorrow.

Name me one scout secondary better than the mad milk? You can't. Noone uses bonk, cola, winger, or other pistol, 90% of scouts who own milk have it equipped. On the flipside we have repetitive unlocks and reskins. Why does scout need 3 unlocks that allow him extra jumps? Soda, FaN, & Atomizer. Why? Wha'ts the point? One would be fine, two max, but three?

I feel that the weapons are not unique in enough from one another to warrant usage and purchase.

Look at Heavy, Why nerf his natascha? It was already pretty unpopular.

The gameplay is restrained. There's an artificial ceiling to what you can and can not do. Why does the eyelander's speed and health bonus top out at 4 heads? Why do engy and spy stored crits max out at 35? Why are there invisible walls to where you cannot jump too? It's annoying. I feel like there's no reward for skill in TF2.
Since when is mad milk the best scout secondary? Thats like saying the Direct hit is the best rocket launcher because it deals more damage. The milk deals no damage at all, meaning you can only rely on your bat and your scattergun to deal damage, instead of having a trusty secondary weapon to finish off weakened enemies.

Can mad milk help you get past sentries? I think not. On the other hand, Bonk allows you to get past sentries and pretty much anything else.

The level caps and the invisible walls are for game balance. Do you really want a demoman that runs as fast as a scout and have 300 health? 35 stored crits is a massive amount. It takes only 3 crit shotgun shots to take out a Heavy with full overheal, so you can take out enemy upon enemy.

I did not know you could equip the Soda popper and the FaN at the same time.

There is actually quite alot of rewards for skill. Aiming well with the Loch or the Bazaar will allow you to deal insane amounts of damage, Direct hit rewards you for airshotting, etc etc.

The Nastacha is unpopular because its upside is nothing compared to its downsides.
Aids the Homosexual Delight May 9, 2014 @ 9:32pm 
There's a skill cap in this game. An artifical skill cap.

I'm good at demoknighting, I'm not saying I want to be a lightspeed demo with infinite health. I want to be rewarded for going and doing above the norm. Mad milk is the most equipped secondary because of the fact it restores health. How many times have you succesfully distracted a sentry with bonk? You still get knocked back into a wall and when bonk runs out you're dead. It's the little things that add up after a while.

I just started playing BF2 again after a long break, the game is still as good as it was at launch. There is no consistency or standards in TF2. Everything is arbitrary. By TF2 logic I wouldn't be surprised if the pistol would shoot shotgun shells and the shotgun would shoot rockets.

Why change what works? Why twist and turn something into something unrecognizeable? TF2 is like dealing with a schizophrenic. One day Up is Down and Down is Left.
Sandshark May 9, 2014 @ 9:35pm 
Originally posted by Idle(Please leave a message):
There's a skill cap in this game. An artifical skill cap.

I'm good at demoknighting, I'm not saying I want to be a lightspeed demo with infinite health. I want to be rewarded for going and doing above the norm. Mad milk is the most equipped secondary because of the fact it restores health. How many times have you succesfully distracted a sentry with bonk? You still get knocked back into a wall and when bonk runs out you're dead. It's the little things that add up after a while.

I just started playing BF2 again after a long break, the game is still as good as it was at launch. There is no consistency or standards in TF2. Everything is arbitrary. By TF2 logic I wouldn't be surprised if the pistol would shoot shotgun shells and the shotgun would shoot rockets.

Why change what works? Why twist and turn something into something unrecognizeable? TF2 is like dealing with a schizophrenic. One day Up is Down and Down is Left.
So uh... you are telling me... that... hmm... yeah I have no idea what point your trying to make here. Mad milk is def not the best secondary for scout and it's sorta bad to compare TF2 with something like BF2.
Dont try to start flamewar like that.
It wont end well.
Aids the Homosexual Delight May 10, 2014 @ 12:20am 
Let me clarify as best as I can.

1. TF2 has a very low skill ceiling
2. The weapons feel very bland and boring now.
3. The only good weapons I liked using have been nerfed to hell or completely gutted.
4. I spent alot of money in the mann co store and waned to support the creators of said weapons.I am wary of spending more money in the store if the weapons I buy are changed too drastically.
5. I am tired of repetitive unlocks.
6. I'm sick of too many cosmetics being added to the game.
7. I want new gameplay experiences and I want new weapons.
8. I would like to vote on workshop items like greenlight.
9. I am NOT trying to start a flamewar.
10. I hate how valve acts schizophrenic and/or bipolar when they update the game.
11. I despise the lack of consistency in TF2.
Lieutenant Bananatits May 10, 2014 @ 4:38am 
Originally posted by Idle(Please leave a message):
Let me clarify as best as I can.

1. TF2 has a very low skill ceiling
2. The weapons feel very bland and boring now.
3. The only good weapons I liked using have been nerfed to hell or completely gutted.
4. I spent alot of money in the mann co store and waned to support the creators of said weapons.I am wary of spending more money in the store if the weapons I buy are changed too drastically.
5. I am tired of repetitive unlocks.
6. I'm sick of too many cosmetics being added to the game.
7. I want new gameplay experiences and I want new weapons.
8. I would like to vote on workshop items like greenlight.
9. I am NOT trying to start a flamewar.
10. I hate how valve acts schizophrenic and/or bipolar when they update the game.
11. I despise the lack of consistency in TF2.
1. Depends on what class you are playing and your playstyle, so no.
2. Personal opinion=/=Actual fact. Also Market Gardener, Ullapool Caber, Jumpers, Gunsligner.
3. Explanation needed.
4. Most weapons havent been changed in a long time. Only a select few have this problem
5. You can just sell them for metal or craft metal with them.
6 and 7. Hats are easier to add to the game than weapons because hats do not need balancing updates and changes. There is no bug where a hat allows you to rocketjump high as soldier. Besides, EotL supposedly has 3 new weapons anyway.
8. You actually can.
9. By saying that BF2 is still good as it was on launch day and then following up by posting negatives about TF2, you are coming damn close to starting a flamewar.
10. They dont. They change weapons based on popular opinion, amount of times used, yadda yadda yadda.
11. So you want the game to stay the same forever? Can you imagine how boring that would get?
Reality May 10, 2014 @ 5:30am 
The light team support and sustainability granted by the mad milk is pretty tied to your ability to communicate with your team, since you have the mobility to get to a med pack or fall back to medic at most times of a match. The teamates get the most out of the heal if you aren't falling back to scattergun, but of course, that gives the guy that much more time to shoot at you...

Pistol can do poke damage and is significantly better than the 5-6 shots a primary would need at midrange. Additionally it can cheese sentries if you can get a line of sight while remaining out of range, and backed up by even one soldier, will push the DPS over an engineer actively healing his sentry. It's a better hit scan weapon for cancelling a rocket or sticky jumpers momentum than the scatter gun. It's basiccaly designed to give the scout utility in a second situation, while the mad milk will ideally intensify your ability to get the jump on enemies and 2 shot them.

It doesn't match "valve's intended gameplay" because it doesn't remove your ability to use it.

If you find the tf2 meta to have altered so weirdly, wouldn't more weapons compound the problem? None of the balanced maps really supports a battlefield/Ghosts style of team suppresion giving you multiple kills per life, so simply being able leave someone at low health should get them to fall back to heal, which can still acheive your goal of getting them away from the next team fight. Control points provide the balance that the weapons don't.
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Date Posted: May 9, 2014 @ 4:31pm
Posts: 58