Stranger_Danger Apr 6 @ 6:44am
what is the best sniper primary
I am deciding whether people also prefer weapons that can easily kill people or weapons that involve skill and tactics.
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Ace42 Apr 6 @ 7:01am 
It's circumstantial.
Best all-rounder is stock;
If you're a can't-miss headshotting god then it's Bazaar Bargain;
If you're a solid headshotter (and don't find Focus to be disruptive) it's Heatmaker.

Huntsman sacrifices assassination potential and reliability for higher DPS at mid-range - but that's a creature unto itself.

Machina is only really useful in veyr rare circumstances - if you need to take out medics hiding behind heavies or use charges to punch through damage resistances.

Sydney Sleeper is just a weapon for bads who can't aim. It has an incredibly narrow band where it's vaguely viable (vs Damage Resistances / Crit Immunities that render the other guns less useful and thus where you might want to scare an opponent into hiding for the 6s Jarate effect), but that's so circumstantial as to be something you can ignore.
Last edited by Ace42; Apr 6 @ 7:03am
[303] theshinesprites Apr 6 @ 7:03am 
Machina can be considered a "Bodyshot Headshotter" wherein the Machina is only useful if you can hit people, but not always in the head.

The penetration is useful too
Tarpet (Banned) Apr 6 @ 7:05am 
Stock is always best weapon.
Ace42 Apr 6 @ 7:07am 
Originally posted by Tarpet ᶜʰᵉᵉˢᵉ:
Stock is always best weapon.

As I said, it's circumstantial. If you're a super-pro headshotter (enough that you routinely have 2+ heads in the pocket) then Bazaar Bargain has higher DPS and thus is superior.

If you're a rock-solid headshotter (enough that you're building up solid focus and not wasting damage on weak bodyshots), then the extra charge speed and time saved zooming gives you a higher DPS and thus is superior.
Last edited by Ace42; Apr 6 @ 7:08am
Tarpet (Banned) Apr 6 @ 7:10am 
Originally posted by Ace42:
Originally posted by Tarpet ᶜʰᵉᵉˢᵉ:
Stock is always best weapon.

As I said, it's circumstantial. If you're a super-pro headshotter (enough that you routinely have 2+ heads in the pocket) then Bazaar Bargain has higher DPS and thus is superior.

If you're a rock-solid headshotter (enough that you're building up solid focus and not wasting damage on weak bodyshots), then the extra charge speed and time saved zooming gives you a higher DPS and thus is superior.
Stock is always the best choice for new players and skilled players who don't need crutches.
Ace42 Apr 6 @ 7:15am 
Originally posted by Tarpet ᶜʰᵉᵉˢᵉ:
Stock is always the best choice for new players and skilled players who don't need crutches.

Well, if by "new" you mean "can't aim for crap" - then Sydney is the "best" because at least they'll actually do something with it...

As for "skilled" players - if you can routinely keep more than two heads in your pocket then Bazaar Bargain is simply superior; likewise if you're skilled enough to land headshots, then the Heatmaker is simply superior.

So it's weird you'd suggest these weapons - which penalise lack of skill more than stock, and reward precision more than stock - are somehow "crutches".

By "weird" I meant "stupid" btw...
Husky306 Apr 6 @ 7:24am 
What is the best color? What is the best sound? What is the best weight? How can people know what do you want from a sniper rifle? HS for all but Sydney, all rifles work the same with HS, so no difference.
Ace42 Apr 6 @ 7:34am 
Originally posted by iron will:
I love sydney sleeper to body shot people and ♥♥♥♥ off tryhards.

The only "tryhards" it should be ♥♥♥♥ing off are the ones on your team who have to carry you.
The time you spend charging is time you're a sitting duck and not dealing damage and thus helping your team.

I love using sydney sleeper; it ♥♥♥♥es people off allot and knocks them off their game when they get ♥♥♥♥ed off and make mistakes.

Poor reasoning. A dead enemy who can't take any actions at all is better for your team than a living ♥♥♥♥-soaked one who - even if he makes mistakes - can still hurt you with them.

If you think any vaguely competent player gets annoyed at you bodyshotting them, then you're kidding yourself. You get a bodyshot kill on a half-decent player and they'll be going "hah, a good player would've not only killed me there, but also the heavy and medic on my team too!"
Ace42 Apr 6 @ 7:47am 
Originally posted by iron will:
I love one hit killing almost all classes with sydney sleeper and ♥♥♥♥ing people off with that mechanic.

But it only ♥♥♥♥es off fools. The charge time to get that OHK means your DPS is terrible, and thus you're a drain on your team. I don't get mad at Sydney Snipers on the enemy team - I'm glad that it's one less player posing a credible threat.

It's like saying "I love going Trolldier and hitting people with Market Gardener" - well, that's fine and dandy, but it sucks for your team-mates who have to carry you in the mean-time...

Also please explain how killing with jarate baodyshots is a bad thing.

It takes 2.8s to do so. In that time you could've killed *two* people with uncharged headshots AND be starting up on a third. Also, for you to get that kill, you're assuming no-one used that 2.8s of delay to kill you first and thus prevent you from hurting anyone.

In the time it takes you to coat a base Soldier or Heavy in ♥♥♥♥; a vaguely competent Sniper would've killed them outright.

Its just not your playstyle.
Incorrect. It's not about playstyle; it's about the objective fact that charged bodyshots have a lower DPS than uncharged headshots and thus are a drain on your team - and the jarate effect doesn't make up for this handicap.
Last edited by Ace42; Apr 6 @ 7:47am
Frozen Apr 6 @ 7:51am 
Originally posted by iron will:
Originally posted by Ace42:

The only "tryhards" it should be ♥♥♥♥ing off are the ones on your team who have to carry you.
The time you spend charging is time you're a sitting duck and not dealing damage and thus helping your team.



Poor reasoning. A dead enemy who can't take any actions at all is better for your team than a living ♥♥♥♥-soaked one who - even if he makes mistakes - can still hurt you with them.

If you think any vaguely competent player gets annoyed at you bodyshotting them, then you're kidding yourself. You get a bodyshot kill on a half-decent player and they'll be going "hah, a good player would've not only killed me there, but also the heavy and medic on my team too!"

I love one hit killing almost all classes with sydney sleeper and ♥♥♥♥ing people off with that mechanic. As well as in mvm sydney sleeper can headshot due to a glitch (explosive headshot). Also please explain how killing with jarate baodyshots is a bad thing. Its just not your playstyle.

It's really, REALLY inefficient. Unless you can't headshot. A fully charged shot deals only 150 damage on the sydney sleeper whilest a normal sniper rifle can do 450 damage; enough to kill a fully over-healed heavy. He's not saying it's not his playstyle, he's simply stating the fact that it's far more efficient to aim for headshots with a rifle that can, rather than with the sydney sleeper.
Ace42 Apr 6 @ 7:52am 
Originally posted by iron will:
Killing with bodyshots is how I play

Yes, we've already established that you play badly

is it is fun
The squeakers tell me that griefing your team's snipers by constantly spraying friendly flames in their face so they can't aim is "fun" too...

and aids the team at the same time.

No, it doesn't aid the team - it HANDICAPs the team. You're not a "bonus free" Sniper they get in addition to the 12 players on the team; you're taking up a playerspot and REPLACING a Sniper who might actually play the role in an efficient manner.

to each his own.
It might be your personal preference to handicap 11 other people and waste a slot on a server; but that is not what this discussion is about. The OP asked about the best Sniper rifles - not for people to boast about a perverse preference for liking what is objectively the worst.

as i love challengeing myself with hard to use weapons.
Sydney isn't HARD to use - it only bodyshots.
It's easy to use; but even when used perfectly it's significantly weaker than the alternatives.
Last edited by Ace42; Apr 6 @ 7:54am
Frozen Apr 6 @ 7:55am 
Maybe we could stop de-railing the thread? Oh, and inb4 locked.
Ace42 Apr 6 @ 7:56am 
Originally posted by iron will:
We can agree to disagree;

No, we can't. I'm citing objective facts pulled directly off the TF2 wiki. You don't get to shrug and go "oh, the facts don't matter..."

What you call bad I can use well.

No, you can't. No matter HOW you use it, you can't make it charge quicker or do more than its max damage. And those two factors are entirely contingent on facts, not your personal preferences.

Even when the Sydney is used PERFECTLY, it's still inferior to stock missing half the headshots taken!
low. dante the demon killer (Banned) Apr 6 @ 7:56am 
Originally posted by Ace42:
It's circumstantial.
Best all-rounder is stock;
If you're a can't-miss headshotting god then it's Bazaar Bargain;
If you're a solid headshotter (and don't find Focus to be disruptive) it's Heatmaker.

Huntsman sacrifices assassination potential and reliability for higher DPS at mid-range - but that's a creature unto itself.

Machina is only really useful in veyr rare circumstances - if you need to take out medics hiding behind heavies or use charges to punch through damage resistances.

Sydney Sleeper is just a weapon for bads who can't aim. It has an incredibly narrow band where it's vaguely viable (vs Damage Resistances / Crit Immunities that render the other guns less useful and thus where you might want to scare an opponent into hiding for the 6s Jarate effect), but that's so circumstantial as to be something you can ignore.
In Sleeper's defense
It falls under the "tactics" category.
Actually if you know how to aim with it close range, you can jarate players at will and critwacka them while your tail flings around and you try pretending the crocodile on your head is happy.
It's also good for banner soldiers since they deal more damage to fill the meter.
While at the same time, makes others pretty soggy and squishy or squishier.

As far as I know, the only single crit-immunity weapon I know of is the Black Box.
The resistance weapons. they would have -20% less resistance to all sources, as that is what the jarate effect does; mini-crits.
Mini-crits allow players to deal +20% more damage, which really helps against those weapons.
The Battalion's Backup may be safe from the effects of jarate under rage, but the sniper can have 24 rounds left, and need only to tag the soldier again.

I agree however, the Sleeper is an extremely weaker weapon on the sniper's side.
Personal side note for the Machina, I used to walk in with an SMG and shiv.
The loadout consists of an offensive sniper play style while knowing when and where to retreat to when things get really bad, because it is severely easy to over-extend as sniper.
Perhaps at times, I use the Machina to take down sentries.
Last edited by low. dante the demon killer; Apr 6 @ 7:59am
Tarpet (Banned) Apr 6 @ 8:01am 
Originally posted by iron will:
Originally posted by Ace42:

No, we can't. I'm citing objective facts pulled directly off the TF2 wiki. You don't get to shrug and go "oh, the facts don't matter..."



No, you can't. No matter HOW you use it, you can't make it charge quicker or do more than its max damage. And those two factors are entirely contingent on facts, not your personal preferences.

Even when the Sydney is used PERFECTLY, it's still inferior to stock missing half the headshots taken!

Lets agree to disagree and stop derailing. We play for two different reasonsand have two differing sniper playstyles. I love support sniper you play killing sniper.
Killing Sniper > Support Sniper
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Date Posted: Apr 6 @ 6:44am
Posts: 150