LMB | militaryprogamer Mar 5 @ 1:51pm
SPY quite underpowered? read before replying pls
hi guys

i was planning to bring up some points regarding the spy

as of late ive been playing him, trying to learn him

i played him for a week sraight and realized something

he is WAY too easily countered

PYRO is supposed to be his weakness, but as it turns out anyone who has half a brain to perform a spy check is his weakness

now, dont get me wrong, i dont simply run to the enemy, the most effective (if thats what you call effective) way to fight the enemy, is getting your team mates to take their attention and in the frey you uncloak and back stab em

plus not to mention the aggravations, that come with back stabbing

oh whats this, your enemy you were about to stab, suddenly decides to run forward, now its going to take even longer to back stab him, or you might as well just say to hell with it, coz honestly 7/10 if you chase someone, he will either turn around, or his team mate will come out of nowhere and see you and perform a spy check

not to mention even a slight turn, and you lose the back stab

spies are supposed to counter engineers

not entirely true, i bet as demo man, soldier, heavy, or even a sniper (at a distance) , i can do better destroying and killing the engineer than being a spy

as a spy attacking a sentry, you have to sap the sentry before you attempt to kill the engineer, but heres the deal,

you cant kill the engineer and sap the sentry at the same time

a.)if you want the kill, you will back stab the engineer, and then get killed by the sentry

b.) or you will sap the sentry and run away, but the engineer will repair it, which i would question why even attempt it in the first place sometimes

getting behind enemy lines is quite hard

as a spy, ever tried to get behind enemy lines, and then your all like......♥♥♥♥ im running out of cloak, yup, several times, its quite hard to really get behind enemy lines safely, even with the cloak, you still run the risk of running into gun fire, enemies, or flames from a cross fire

TLDR; solutions

spy, needs a speed boost, both cloaked an uncloaked
- whatever class he hides as, give him, 5-10 % speed boost (whatever feels more balanced, test it out before giving judgement)

ex. so say he is cloaked as a heavy, think a 5-10 percent faster heavy

back stab buff
- make it where he can stab from the sides

cloak buff
- faster uncloaking (im not saying go crazy and have super uncloaking speed)
- more cloak time, (probably a few seconds more, 5 at most)

sapper buff and nerf
- lessen the damage done by sapper
- but make it so, that it takes more wrench hits to remove

i assure you i was not smoking anything before i started this discussion, (haha, ;), so you cant ask me if i was smoking anything)


Showing 1-15 of 144 comments
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Silky Mar 5 @ 2:47pm 
You're making spy into a brick. He's not. Spy doesn't have a special job, like engie. He has to conform, and if you can't adapt to opponent's fighting styles and skill levels, spy isn't for you. Spy is viable way up in plat highlander, and those guys are way better than you or me or anyone you've faced. If they can do it, so can you. Don't say "they have more skill", either, because their opponents have more skill, too.

Also spy isn't engie's counter. Who gave you that idea?
2↓st Sentry Gentleman Mar 5 @ 2:53pm 
Nah, Spy is fine.
Especially on pub-level, he's a lethal key-target assassin - a job that gets more difficult as skill level goes up, but just as does the importance of relaying information; for example, the ability to check whether the enemy Medic is running stock or kritz, whether the Engineer runs regular, or Minisentries, and what gear the enemy Spy is using before the round even started can be crucial.
LMB | militaryprogamer Mar 5 @ 2:56pm 
Originally posted by berberberber:
You're making spy into a brick. He's not. Spy doesn't have a special job, like engie. He has to conform, and if you can't adapt to opponent's fighting styles and skill levels, spy isn't for you. Spy is viable way up in plat highlander, and those guys are way better than you or me or anyone you've faced. If they can do it, so can you. Don't say "they have more skill", either, because their opponents have more skill, too.

Also spy isn't engie's counter. Who gave you that idea?

you need to read that part again

LMB | militaryprogamer Mar 5 @ 2:59pm 
Originally posted by 21 Sentry Fox:
Nah, Spy is fine.
Especially on pub-level, he's a lethal key-target assassin - a job that gets more difficult as skill level goes up, but just as does the importance of relaying information; for example, the ability to check whether the enemy Medic is running stock or kritz, whether the Engineer runs regular, or Minisentries, and what gear the enemy Spy is using before the round even started can be crucial.

not really, he's usefulness goes down as the players go up, up to a point where he does becomes a burden if anything, may as well become a front liner and add to the teams fighting power

and even if you knew what kind of equipment the enemy has, you think your team is even going to care?

i mean lets be honest here, if i were to say, "hey guys, enemy engineer has mini sentry", i wonder what my team would say, they prolly would forget about it after a few seconds
slop Mar 5 @ 3:01pm 
0/10 thread
0/10 spy player
0/10 class

10 spies out of 10 ~IGN
BronzeOrange Mar 5 @ 3:02pm 
If you have different weapons that the stock weapons the spy is a very lethal player. Even still with the stock weapons, a good spy is able to kill people.
LMB | militaryprogamer Mar 5 @ 3:03pm 
Originally posted by push cat back down:
0/10 thread
0/10 spy player
0/10 class

10 spies out of 10 ~IGN

0/10 reply

10/10 troll - trollsrus
LMB | militaryprogamer Mar 5 @ 3:04pm 
Originally posted by BronzeOrange:
If you have different weapons that the stock weapons the spy is a very lethal player. Even still with the stock weapons, a good spy is able to kill people.

....im assuming you didnt read, and you skipped on and replied
slop Mar 5 @ 3:06pm 
Originally posted by LMB | militaryprogamer:
10/10 troll - trollsrus

I'm dead serious.
Play a real class instead of whining about how you can't handle the player-based-RNG rollercoaster that is baguette man.
LMB | militaryprogamer Mar 5 @ 3:15pm 
Originally posted by push cat back down:
Originally posted by LMB | militaryprogamer:
10/10 troll - trollsrus

I'm dead serious.
Play a real class instead of whining about how you can't handle the player-based-RNG rollercoaster that is baguette man.

its called a discussion where we discuss things on regards to the game, we give advice and we talk things through for the improvement of the game

so, if you can't stop your impoliteness, then the forums is not for you
2↓st Sentry Gentleman Mar 5 @ 3:16pm 
Originally posted by LMB | militaryprogamer:
not really, he's usefulness goes down as the players go up, up to a point where he does becomes a burden if anything, may as well become a front liner and add to the teams fighting power
Uh huh.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCd9zlS8zVs&feature=youtube_gdata_player
That's Dissy.
The Spy of my old team.
Unedited footage from a single highlander match.
Go ahead and tell him that the he has so little impact that he's a burden for the team.

Originally posted by LMB | militaryprogamer:
and even if you knew what kind of equipment the enemy has, you think your team is even going to care?
Yes.
Originally posted by LMB | militaryprogamer:
i mean lets be honest here, if i were to say, "hey guys, enemy engineer has mini sentry", i wonder what my team would say, they prolly would forget about it after a few seconds
Based on that statement, I can't help but wonder where it was that you got the impression that the problem at hand was a generally high skill level.
winrarphile Mar 5 @ 3:17pm 
Originally posted by LMB | militaryprogamer:
Originally posted by push cat back down:

I'm dead serious.
Play a real class instead of whining about how you can't handle the player-based-RNG rollercoaster that is baguette man.

its called a discussion where we discuss things on regards to the game, we give advice and we talk things through for the improvement of the game

so, if you can't stop your impoliteness, then the forums is not for you

you're poor and Irish and still have a gibus
Last edited by winrarphile; Mar 5 @ 3:17pm
Silky Mar 5 @ 3:17pm 
Originally posted by LMB | militaryprogamer:
Originally posted by 21 Sentry Fox:
Nah, Spy is fine.
Especially on pub-level, he's a lethal key-target assassin - a job that gets more difficult as skill level goes up, but just as does the importance of relaying information; for example, the ability to check whether the enemy Medic is running stock or kritz, whether the Engineer runs regular, or Minisentries, and what gear the enemy Spy is using before the round even started can be crucial.

not really, he's usefulness goes down as the players go up, up to a point where he does becomes a burden if anything, may as well become a front liner and add to the teams fighting power

and even if you knew what kind of equipment the enemy has, you think your team is even going to care?

i mean lets be honest here, if i were to say, "hey guys, enemy engineer has mini sentry", i wonder what my team would say, they prolly would forget about it after a few seconds
You clearly don't know too much about spy's job. You're thinking of him as the assassin that goes in, kills everyone, and brushes off his shirt. It's not that way. Spy is good for getting key targets. Stop chasing people, wait for someone that'll be valuable. Sure you stabbed a gibus heavy, but what good did it do? If you keep going for garbage kills like that, you'll think of him as a soldier or demo, and play him like so. Just because you're bad at something doesn't make it underpowered.

And yes. Equipment matters a lot. Again, that lone-wolf playstyle. Stop it. It may be fine for a soldier, but it's definitely not for a spy. Knowing whether medic has kritz or uber can save a sentry nest, and killing the medic with the uber is better than killing a useless soldier. Sure, you don't get a lot of kills, but you get the important kills. At least that's how you're supposed to do it.

Like i said, stop thinking of him like a lone wolf assassin.
LMB | militaryprogamer Mar 5 @ 3:21pm 
Originally posted by berberberber:
Originally posted by LMB | militaryprogamer:

not really, he's usefulness goes down as the players go up, up to a point where he does becomes a burden if anything, may as well become a front liner and add to the teams fighting power

and even if you knew what kind of equipment the enemy has, you think your team is even going to care?

i mean lets be honest here, if i were to say, "hey guys, enemy engineer has mini sentry", i wonder what my team would say, they prolly would forget about it after a few seconds
You clearly don't know too much about spy's job. You're thinking of him as the assassin that goes in, kills everyone, and brushes off his shirt. It's not that way. Spy is good for getting key targets. Stop chasing people, wait for someone that'll be valuable. Sure you stabbed a gibus heavy, but what good did it do? If you keep going for garbage kills like that, you'll think of him as a soldier or demo, and play him like so. Just because you're bad at something doesn't make it underpowered.

And yes. Equipment matters a lot. Again, that lone-wolf playstyle. Stop it. It may be fine for a soldier, but it's definitely not for a spy. Knowing whether medic has kritz or uber can save a sentry nest, and killing the medic with the uber is better than killing a useless soldier. Sure, you don't get a lot of kills, but you get the important kills. At least that's how you're supposed to do it.

Like i said, stop thinking of him like a lone wolf assassin.

there you go, thats a good explanation right there, why can't a fraction of the community give convincing replies like these

however, still though there are times when your stab fails and it gets rather annoying that a slight turn ruins your kill chance
Last edited by LMB | militaryprogamer; Mar 5 @ 3:24pm
howlin' wolf Mar 5 @ 3:25pm 
You can back stab engie, use dead ringer and sap the sentry after.
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Date Posted: Mar 5 @ 1:51pm
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