EvilDEATH1234 Jan 30 @ 7:59pm
Liberty Launcher Pointless?
Take a look at the Black Box, it heals 15 health on a hit and loses a single rocket in its clip.

The Liberty Launcher deals 25% damage to enemies, damage to self, and has a 40% faster movement speed.

On a surface level, it may seem as if there is not a problem, but interestingly enough, the Black Box heals more damage on a hit than the Liberty Launcher saves you when rocket jumping. The LL saves about 10 damage on a rocket jump, and the Black Box heals 15 on a hit, obviously more than the LL saves. The BB completely negates the LL primary function as a rocket jumping utility by healing ~5 more damage than the LL saves from a rocket jump on an enemy hit, and in most circumstances, there is no reason to use the LL over the BB, because the BB completely nullifies the LL newest balancing function and essentially reverts it to its original state of being blatantly underpowered as a weapon ( -25% enemy damage, +40% rocket speed) .

Essentially, BB deals the same amount of damage that the LL does in 3 rockets, opposed to 4 that the LL would take to deal roughly the same damage, so the BB clip penalty imposes no actual threat to the direct confrontational useage of this weapon over the LL, in fact, the BB will kill more quickly than the LL and will heal the user in the process, which sounds like a direct upgrade.

Planned rocket jumping ( jumping while over-healed, jumping into a health kit, etc. ) and health in general is already a nullification of the LL, but the BB's added bonus of health on hit completely nullifies the LL's purpose as a utility.

Can someone explain to me why there is a purpose to use the LL over the BB now?

I can explain my reasoning to a further level if needed by anyone.
Last edited by EvilDEATH1234; Jan 30 @ 8:01pm
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amysticmoth Jan 30 @ 8:03pm 
it was a stupid crutch before, now you actually have a penalty for being too bad to aim rockets
fine as is, let the 12 year old pubbers suck at solly
EvilDEATH1234 Jan 30 @ 8:05pm 
Originally posted by acommoncreeper S> Cards:
it was a stupid crutch before, now you actually have a penalty for being too bad to aim rockets
fine as is, let the 12 year old pubbers suck at solly

And a penalty for having pin-point accuracy with it, I personally see no redeeming attributes that the weapon has. Other launchers have a significantly higher margin of error than this one.
amysticmoth Jan 30 @ 8:18pm 
Originally posted by EvilDEATH1234:
Originally posted by acommoncreeper S> Cards:
it was a stupid crutch before, now you actually have a penalty for being too bad to aim rockets
fine as is, let the 12 year old pubbers suck at solly

And a penalty for having pin-point accuracy with it, I personally see no redeeming attributes that the weapon has. Other launchers have a significantly higher margin of error than this one.
my point is it shouldnt have any redeeming atributes. it's a dumb base for a weapon. "let's make a weapon that the only upside is making the class easier for people who can't lead rockets"
Ace42 Jan 30 @ 8:18pm 
It's a jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none weapon.

Yeah, you can RJ better with the Gunboats; but you sacrifice a Secondary to do so. Yeah you can pop-up-and-skeet better with a stock Rocket Launcher, but you make yourself more vulnerable when Rocket Jumping. Yeah you can Trolldier better with the Rocket Jumper, but you sacrifice AOE damage to do so.

You should be using it to Market Garden or pop-up and skeet with the Reserve Shooter for Combo kills; and delivering some AOE damage here and there to soften up groups of enemies or help take out buildings from long range.
i dont even (Banned) Jan 30 @ 8:19pm 
direct hit
much good
EvilDEATH1234 Jan 30 @ 8:19pm 
Originally posted by acommoncreeper S> Cards:
Originally posted by EvilDEATH1234:

And a penalty for having pin-point accuracy with it, I personally see no redeeming attributes that the weapon has. Other launchers have a significantly higher margin of error than this one.
my point is it shouldnt have any redeeming atributes. it's a dumb base for a weapon. "let's make a weapon that the only upside is making the class easier for people who can't lead rockets"

No point in making a weapon that is a direct downgrade.
sethampetamine Jan 30 @ 8:20pm 
just wack den in their sockets and you will be alright mate
amysticmoth Jan 30 @ 8:21pm 
Originally posted by EvilDEATH1234:
Originally posted by acommoncreeper S> Cards:
my point is it shouldnt have any redeeming atributes. it's a dumb base for a weapon. "let's make a weapon that the only upside is making the class easier for people who can't lead rockets"

No point in making a weapon that is a direct downgrade.
then remove it or change it entirely. but stop working with the stupid base of the weapon. look at the soda popper: valve realized that it was a stupid crutch that rewarded you for effectively doing nothing, so they changed it.
EvilDEATH1234 Jan 30 @ 8:22pm 
Originally posted by Ace42:
It's a jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none weapon.

Yeah, you can RJ better with the Gunboats; but you sacrifice a Secondary to do so. Yeah you can pop-up-and-skeet better with a stock Rocket Launcher, but you make yourself more vulnerable when Rocket Jumping. Yeah you can Trolldier better with the Rocket Jumper, but you sacrifice AOE damage to do so.

You should be using it to Market Garden or pop-up and skeet with the Reserve Shooter for Combo kills; and delivering some AOE damage here and there to soften up groups of enemies or help take out buildings from long range.

Black Box negated the 10 damage you save if you hit any enemy while rocket jumping, which isn't a problem when you rocket jump half the time for a height advantage. I see where you are going with the jack-of-all-trades approach, but the BB essentially is a direct upgrade to the LL in any type of combat, with or without the introduction of rocket jumping, because it heals more damage than the LL actually saves in a jump.

The BB has no damage penalty, can be used with a secondary and heals more than the LL saves in a jump when it hits someone (which isn't hard to do).
Last edited by EvilDEATH1234; Jan 30 @ 8:23pm
Sgt Poptart Jan 30 @ 8:23pm 
Aces right, ats also more of a training weapon. In exchange for making it easier to land shots and not be damaged by jumps you lose damge+ plus pair this with gunboats and market gardener and the things practically a rocket jumper with a damage penalty and projectile speed
gsc159753 Jan 30 @ 8:24pm 
any redeeming factors (rocket speed wise, not jumping) it might have are out classed by the direct hit. The less rocket jumping damage was a stupid upside considering the excistance of gunboats and as you said the blackbox. I honestly still don't see why it was nerfed so badly in the first place. I never saw it over used (I hardly saw anyone use it pre-nerf now I don't see anyone using it) compare that to the soda popper where it was over used.
Last edited by gsc159753; Jan 30 @ 8:27pm
Sentient_Toaster Jan 30 @ 8:24pm 
...as if projectile velocity means nothing.

I suppose it doesn't, if you're mostly hitting immobile unaware permascoped snipers, or shooting at point blank. But most players will notice rockets heading in their direction and attempt to dodge, which is going to be much easier with the BB than the LL.
EvilDEATH1234 Jan 30 @ 8:25pm 
Originally posted by Poptart Domination:
Aces right, ats also more of a training weapon. In exchange for making it easier to land shots and not be damaged by jumps you lose damge+ plus pair this with gunboats and market gardener and the things practically a rocket jumper with a damage penalty and projectile speed

Training weapons are essentially worthless in any type of serious combat, Valve should put more effort into weapons that make a lasting impression and have utility value rather than a weapon that is great until a skill quota is reached.
Ace42 Jan 30 @ 8:26pm 
Originally posted by EvilDEATH1234:
Black Box negated the 10 damage you save if you hit any enemy while rocket jumping,

That's a big if, and it's considerably harder to do multi-jumps AND secure some damage if you've only got 3 rockets in your tube. Unless you hit multiple enemies with a single rocket, or hit an enemy with a rocket you are using to jump with, you're not going to negate as much damage as the LL does if you double-jump; AND the LL has a rocket left for pogos / walljumps / whatever.

but the BB essentially is a direct upgrade to the LL in any type of combat, with or without the introduction of rocket jumping, because it heals more damage than the LL actually saves in a jump.

It might save you a jump, (or it might not depending on the breaks), but you can't USE that jump because you've got no rockets left in your tube.
Last edited by Ace42; Jan 30 @ 8:33pm
EvilDEATH1234 Jan 30 @ 8:29pm 
Originally posted by Sentient_Toaster:
...as if projectile velocity means nothing.

I suppose it doesn't, if you're mostly hitting immobile unaware permascoped snipers, or shooting at point blank. But most players will notice rockets heading in their direction and attempt to dodge, which is going to be much easier with the BB than the LL.

Not really, it really doesn't if it isn't outside a critical zone ( extreme values). Many Soldiers apparently feel the same way, as Soldier is still a viable competitive class. And outside of opinion, rocket speed at Soldier's optimum range, close-medium, is largely unaffected by the 40% extra speed the LL has, the difference between when a Rocket Launcher rocket will hit opposed to a LL rocket is suprisingly low.
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Date Posted: Jan 30 @ 7:59pm
Posts: 59