Washington Whiteskin Jan 29 @ 7:03pm
Simple Vaccinator Changes.
My two biggest problems with the Vaccinator are:

1. It's too easily countered. Being able to face-tank a heavy for a few seconds is nice, but this is TEAM Fortress, usually there is a soldier/demoman/pyro close by that will murder you while you're ubering with bullet resitance.

2. It's really clunky. Having to cycle between 3 resistance types is unnatural and just a general pain in the butt. It also adds to the confusion of hitting the cycle key too many times, and getting thrown off of what resitance type you're on, which often leads to death.

With that said, I came up with some changes that could kill both birds with one stone.

Change 1. Add melee resistance. It makes sense and goes well with the Vaccinator, and people have been asking for it for over a year now.

Change 2. Combine fire resistance with explosive resistance. Combine bullet resistance with melee resistance.

This way, the problem of cycling between 3 resistance types is completely removed. However, the Vaccinator remains balanced because the user has to choose between fire/explosive and bullet/melee. The only difference now is that the Vaccinator is more difficult to counter, which is exactly what it needs.

There is a reason almost no one takes the Vaccinator seriously, but I think these changes could really make it something worth using.
Showing 1-15 of 34 comments
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Solaire of Astora Jan 29 @ 7:07pm 
All I want is for it to have a crit resistance type. Then it'll be balanced for me.
Ace42 Jan 29 @ 7:27pm 
AFAIK melee damage counts as bullet resistance, so the Vaccinator already does this. And Pyros don't need their weak-♥♥♥ fire nerfed further still.
Leeevog #RoadtoaRoad Jan 29 @ 7:29pm 
Originally posted by Solaire of Astora:
All I want is for it to have a crit resistance type. Then it'll be balanced for me.

As a possible bug, Ubercharging with Vaccinator gives 100% Crit resistance.

yup.
Heartless Bob Jan 29 @ 7:29pm 
Originally posted by Solaire of Astora:
All I want is for it to have a crit resistance type. Then it'll be balanced for me.

It already negates crit damage on Uber.
Ace42 Jan 29 @ 7:30pm 
Originally posted by Heartless Bob:
It already negates crit damage on Uber.

Indeed, and mitigates some crit damage when not ubering and at no cost to ubercharge as a potential bug AFAIK.
Washington Whiteskin Jan 29 @ 7:35pm 
Originally posted by Ace42:
AFAIK melee damage counts as bullet resistance, so the Vaccinator already does this. And Pyros don't need their weak-♥♥♥ fire nerfed further still.

No, there is no melee resistance. The changes aren't meant to nerf other classes, they're meant to remove the confusion/awkwardness of cycling through 3 types.
Solaire of Astora Jan 29 @ 7:37pm 
Well, didn't know it negated crit. Thanks for the info.
Ace42 Jan 29 @ 7:42pm 
Originally posted by Cigar Sandwich:
No, there is no melee resistance. The changes aren't meant to nerf other classes, they're meant to remove the confusion/awkwardness of cycling through 3 types.

Aha, because Melee uses the same hitscan as bullet weapons, it used to count as "Bullet Vulnerability" on weapons like the Pain Train; but that was apparently patched a while ago in an undocumented fix.

Should still double-check in an actual test to verify they didn't mess it up on other kit since.

The changes aren't meant to nerf other classes,
Reducing the damage Pyros can do to a Medic and their Patient just because they're trying to block damage from another class's weaponry (Explosives) is, in effect, a nerf to Pyros; whether that was your intention or not.
Last edited by Ace42; Jan 29 @ 7:45pm
Titanoverlord Jan 29 @ 7:46pm 
Combing the resistances does not sound like a bad idea. However that might become overpowered when you can segment your uber into 2 or 4 charges, allowing you to change on a dime to maximize your resistance.
-W3E- Dat Jane Doe Jan 29 @ 8:09pm 
Id like a melee damage resistance option

Also reduces shield bash and mantread damage
Last edited by -W3E- Dat Jane Doe; Jan 29 @ 8:10pm
Leeevog #RoadtoaRoad Jan 29 @ 8:11pm 
Originally posted by Mount Festiverest:
Id like a melee damage resistance option

Also reduces shield bash and mantread damage

As stated multiple times in this thread, Melee MAY count as Bullet damage. Maybe.

Also, Do you have any idea how weak Chargin' Targe and Mantread is? Splendid Screen is an absolute joke nowadays, btw.
Washington Whiteskin Jan 29 @ 9:43pm 
Guys, I've spent the last 3 weeks playing Vaccinator exclusively, which led me to make this topic. I've been killed very easily by melee while in bullet resistance uber. Bullet used to cover melee damage but it no longer does.
Bullet resist does not count as melee. I've had one too many patients get decapitated by a demoknight bot in MVM to think otherwise.
Ælai? Jan 29 @ 10:17pm 
Indeed the Vaccinator is easy to counter (the Resistance Icons sure help), but not every opponent likes to mix-up their loadout (eg. Gunboats Soldier) and no loadout is omnipotent (eg. the Shotgun's range coupled with Soldier's speed doesn't always make the greatest answer to an Explosive Uber). It's both optimistic and realistic to emphasize that the Vaccinator can quarter heavy damage, if the correct priority is determined, and force a change of tactics (usually one that applies less pressure).

Tapping the correct # of times to cycle back and forth isn't troublesome to me, but I can see how it can hinder popping a matching Uber.

Combining resistances or adding a counter-cycle command seems ridiculous to me, so is the coveting of melee resistance, as if it's as great and persistent a threat as the other types. Melee is frequently used in desperation or haste - even if it is once again treated as Bullets and/or simply ignored melee crits (I recently tore a Vaccinator Medic a new one with the Postal Pummeler), to be able to deny a final struggle with great frequency (especially when compared to the other Ubers) is too much for me. Also, without consolidated resistances, Melee Resistance would get in the way, like how I treat Fire Resistance in most situations.

To sum it up, this isn't the kind of buff that would give the Vaccinator attention from those who want a more effective Medigun.

As it stands, the Vaccinator's useful for quick, cheap crit resistance (which I consider a bug) and pockets (the pub kind), since it is easily the worst Medigun for keeping even a single patient overhealed. I still think it needs a more forward or faster healing ramp-up, but apparently that's not a simple change, and I bet most players wouldn't give such a feature a second glance.
I think the Vaccinator needs melee resistance and that's it. I use it more than the other mediguns after I learnt how useful the small, short ubers are-still, I would take the default over it any day.
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Date Posted: Jan 29 @ 7:03pm
Posts: 34