Insidious Bulk Jul 15 @ 9:00am
Sandman: Is it worth the trade?
15 health is substantial when it comes to the Scout. It means rockets, huntsmen, grenades can 1shot him, and thats a huge factor in battle. The gain is a ball that takes 15 seconds to charge again, misses often and causes a stun for usually 2-3 seconds. Its not a huge advantage and is unreliable. I personally think it needs a buff to the ball, to the long recharge and the very short stun. It could be used in effective tandem with the taunt kill, like Holiday Punch but unfortunately lasts to short to do so. I would personally make the ball a 12 second recharge (also buffing Guillotine combo) and make the stun duration 2-9 seconds. This would be a far better trade off because often shooting the ball is wasting both hitpoints and a moment to use the gun for a few shots. The extra time would be substantial enough to score a shot and actually matter in a duel, the recharge makes for reliability and allows guillotine combo to flow.

Good or bad idea? Please comment :)
Showing 1-5 of 5 comments
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GarnetSnatcher Jul 15 @ 9:01am 
Just use it and see what you think.
PBPP gets rid of the HP downside.
Last edited by GarnetSnatcher; Jul 15 @ 9:02am
Lagger -CZE- (Banned) Jul 15 @ 9:04am 
The ball is 15 seconds BECAUSE of the Guillotine combo. You can throw two guillotines and get your next target lined up before both recharge.

The weapon is not meant to be used up close. It's there to give the kill opportunity to your team or enter a fight with a free meatshot. Not more nor less.

Also, if you want your meelee to do ranged damage, why don't you just use Wrap Assassin? That thing's made for that.
Well, for now, let's just be grateful, because the original Sandman didn't allow double jumps.
It's worth it in my opinion, sure you might get oneshotted by some classes, but even with the stock bat they would propably have been able to land another shot on you and you would have died anyway.
Last edited by Littlefoot (NOT selling Conga); Jul 15 @ 9:33am
Venrez Jul 15 @ 9:53am 
The Sandman is probably the best Scout melee unlock for player-versus-player combat.

Yes I know the Fan of War is good for MvM, shut your face.

The Sandman is exceptional for PvP because it still deals full melee damage if you ever decide to actually hit anyone with it. The -15 Health is negligible because as a decent Scout you should be capable of dodging the majority of incoming fire anyway, alongside the fact that there are Healthkits, Medics or Dispensers virtually everywhere. The only real risk are the attacks that could one-shot you, but chances are the 15 extra health wouldnt have helped at all and you should've / could've dodged the attack anyway.

The Sandman stun-ball enables you to smash targets that would otherwise represent a severe threat. You can completely disable an incoming enemy if your parabolic aim is good. A Heavy revving his Minigun? A sniper taking aim? A soldier in the wrong spot at the wrong time? It completely and utterly negates the enemy target, dealing light damage and preventing them from fighting back. In the next 1-2 seconds you can ~almost always~ kill the stunned target either with your Primary weapon or simply whack him with the Sandman.

Bonus points if you use the Sandman with the Flying Guillotine (Meat Cleaver). The stun-ball deals a slight amount of damage (10-20 or something) and if you hit them with the Cleaver, its an automatic 150. If it doesnt outright kill them, even a long-distance shot from your Primary afterwards will likely kill them unless its a Heavy.

As other people have also suggested, using the Pocket Pistol negates the -health penalty of the Sandman too, if you so desire.

> Bonus Points Round 2
The Sandman has a taunt-kill. Great if a match ends in a stalemate or you get the 10 seconds with the score screen showing at the end of a match before it changes level. Its quite satisfying to taunt-kill someone when they think the fighting is over
Last edited by Venrez; Jul 15 @ 9:55am
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Date Posted: Jul 15 @ 9:00am
Posts: 5