Team Fortress 2
Zipnet Jul 21, 2014 @ 11:13am
My liste of ideas to improve the balance of TF2
Hello readers.

I don't know about you but I think this game may have a little bit of a balance issue,as some weapons clearly stomp their competitions while others never even leave their owners backpack.

Here is a list of changes which,in my humble opinion, would get TF2 closer to a perfect balance (even if I know than a perfect balance is nearly impossible to reach).
On some weapons, I'll explain my reasoning for the change I'd like to see put in place.

Onward we go!

Panic Attack :
+30% firing speed
+15% faster reload time
This weapon deploys 50% faster
-2 clips in magazine
Keep firing until the magazine is empty
No switching allowed while firing

Notes :
The Beggar Bazooka charging style doesn't fit this weapon at all since it prevents you from being ready in case of troubles.
With those stats, the weapon is ready to fire in case of emergency but you have more chances to waste ammo.
I removed the health related attributes as this description is already cramped as it is.

Sun-on-a-stick :
When on fire, +20% speed and +15% resistance to bullet damage
25% fire damage vulnerability

Beggar's Bazooka :
Hold Fire to load up to three rockets
Release Fire to unleash the barrage
Press 'Reload' key to cancel a shot
-20% explosion radius
+3 degrees random projectile deviation
Overloading the chamber will cause a misfire
No ammo from dispensers when active

Mantreads :
-75% reduction in push force taken from damage
Secondary attack : During a rocket jump, force the soldier to rapidly fall straight to the ground
Deals 3x falling damage to the player you land on and push back nearby enemies

Notes :
I'm thinking of this "stomp attack" like a Demoknight charge but vertical.It would make stomping someone head more reliable while still requiring a minimum of skill.

Escape Plan :
When weapon is active:
Move speed increases as the user becomes injured
You are marked for death while active, and for short period after switching weapons
-90% less healing from Medic sources
-20% damage

All flamethrowers :
I would suggest adding an overheat mechanic to all flamethrowers.
After a continuous use of the flamethrower for about 80 units of fuel, the weapon would be unusable for a few second and the player would have to use his other weapons until the cooldown is completed.
Using the airblast would cool down the flamethrower a bit.

Notes :
This mechanic would fight the so-called "W+M1" pyros as it would at least discourage charging head first into the enemy. Instead, the encouraged strategies would be short attacks before retreat and a smart usage of the airblast.
It would also give more use to melee weapons as melee replacements in case of overheat.

Degreaser :
50% faster weapon switch
-25% afterburn damage penalty
+25% airblast cost

Axtinguisher :
100% critical hits against burning players
No random critical hits
20% slower swing speed
35% slower switch-to speed

Powerjack :
+15% faster move speed on wearer
20% damage vulnerability on wearer
20% longer holster time

Sharpened Volcano Fragment :
Hit teammates to extinguish and gain guaranteed critical hits
No random critical hits
20% slower swing speed

Third Degree :
All players connected via Medigun beams are hit
Damaging enemies with this weapon fills up a "On fire" meter
Upon taunting when the meter is full : temporary fast regeneration
15% vulnerability against melee damage

Notes :
The regeneration would be like a quick-fix über healing you.
I wanted an effect that would be parallel to the Phlog.

Neon Annihilator :
Hitting an enemy with this weapon grants you mini-crits and increases the damage taken by 10% for the next 6 seconds

Notes :
Mini-crits affect all weapons.

Loch-n-Load :
+10% damage bonus
+25% projectile speed
-25% clip size
-25% explosion radius
Launched bombs shatter on surfaces

Iron Bomber :
Grenades have very little bounce and roll
+15% explosion radius
+1 bomb in clip
-20% damage on direct impact

All shields :
If at least 20% of the charge meter is filled, the user can charge for as long as the meter allows it.
Shield bashing damage is decreased according to the initial charge meter value (less charge = less damage).
If the charge meter is between 50% and 75% at the start of the charge,swinging on bash grants a mini-crit.
If the charge meter is greater than 75% at the start of the charge,swinging on bash grants a crit (except for the Tide Turner which still grants a mini-crit).

Splendid Screen :
+20% fire damage resistance on wearer
+15% explosive damage resistance on wearer
+70% increase in charge impact damage if more than 75% of the charge meter is full at the start of the charge
+50% recharge rate

Half-Zatoichi :
Gain 65% of base health on kill
No random critical hits
Honorbound: Once drawn sheathing deals 50 damage to yourself unless it kills.
-60% health from healers when active

Persian Persuader :
+75% increase in charge recharge rate
All ammo collected becomes health
No random critical hits
-60% health from healers when active

Notes :
The new downside would only be effective if the player has the booties with him.
Indeed,having the booties on means the player doesn't need ammo or an other weapon and thus let these swords without any downside.

Huo-Long Heater :
Damaging enemies fills up a "Dragon" meter
Upon reloading when the "Dragon" meter is full : bullets put enemies on fire during 8 seconds and a ring of flames is deployed
-30 max primary ammo on wearer
15% fire damage vulnerability

Notes :
The ring of fire is a lot of ammo wasted for a protection you can easily avoid, which is why I invented this whole new mechanic.
The afterburn time would be 60% of the value of a normal afterburn (inspired by "Digitic").

Buffalo Steak Sandvich :
While under the effects, move speed is increased,attacks deal mini-crit,+50 health upon kill, damage taken will be increased by 25%, and the player may only use melee weapons.

Holiday Punch :
Critical hit forces victim to laugh
Always critical hit from behind
On Hit: Force enemies to laugh who are also wearing this item
Critical hits do no damage
-20% damage penalty

Notes :
This weapon can insta-kill you with its showdown taunt kill while you cannot do anything.
Granted,it isn't easy to pull off and an enemy can save his teammate but I though a little downside would be welcome.

Southern Hospitality :
On Hit: Bleed for 7 seconds
No random critical hits
10% explosive damage vulnerability on wearer

Eureka Effect :
Press your reload key to choose to teleport to spawn or your exit teleporter
Construction hit speed boost decreased by 25%
30% less metal from Dispensers and Pickups

Overdose :
-15% damage penalty
-25% clip size
Movement speed increases based on ÜberCharge percentage to a maximum of +15%

The Classic :
Charge and fire shots independent of zoom
Press 'Reload' key to cancel a shot
No headshots when less than 30% charged
-10% damage on body shot

Razorback :
+40% damage resistance for all attacks coming from behind
Blocks a single backstab attempt
---OR---
-20% damage from close and mid ranged sources while active
Blocks a single backstab attempt

Notes :
The first choice would allow a sniper to retreat more easily if he doesn't attempt to fight back with his rifle.
The second choice (proposed by "Marshal") would give a sniper a better chance to fight back an enemy who managed to take him by surprise.
Breaking the Razorback removes the resistance for both choices.

Your Eternal Reward :
Upon a successful backstab against a human target, you rapidly disguise as your victim
Silent Killer: No attack noise from backstabs and silent decloak
10% damage vulnerability while disguised
---OR---
Upon a successful backstab against a human target, you rapidly disguise as your victim
Silent Killer: No attack noise from backstabs
+20% more cloak time
10% damage vulnerability while disguised

Red-Tape Recorder :
+30% damage vulnerability on buildings while sapped and 7 sec after removal
-30% sapper damage penalty

Notes :
Vulnerable buildings will release sparks as a visual indicator of their state.
I made this change to keep this weapon idea of weakening an engy nest while removing the deleveling part.
The reason for this is that, as opposed to a building sapped with the stock sapper where the engy only needs to spend a few metal to fix the damage, the enemy engy will need to spend at least 200 metal to repair what the spy did.
And even though the destruction process is faster than the downgrade process, the downgrade process is made of several steps which come quickly and each of them is hard for the engineer to repair.


This ends this list.
Please remember that this is only based on my opinions and avoid any flame war.

Any commentary will be welcomed.
Last edited by Zipnet; Dec 19, 2015 @ 5:26pm
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Showing 1-15 of 161 comments
Sgt Doe Crits Jul 21, 2014 @ 11:35am 
I clearly see that you hate pyro a lot... Giving things like the Neon thingy a nerf for being UP already... woah. Also the Eternal Reward buff is imo OP with Dead Ringer. They removed the sets for good reasons. The near 0 decloak sound was one of the biggest reasons.

A clear no on Spy + Pyro stuff.

The Heavy's Hou-Long heater mechanism is interesting, it would give a good diversity.
The solem vow is more than reasonable. A definite yes.
The Claidheamh Mör is a bit too strong. maybe 0.4-0.5s per head added AND only 40% increased recharge. Otherwise, yeah, it is a good buff.
slop Jul 21, 2014 @ 11:39am 
Originally posted by Zipnet:
Hello readers.
Sun-on-a-stick :
When on fire, +20% speed and +15% resistance to bullet damage
35% fire damage vulnerability

scout doesn't need more speed

Mantreads :
-75% reduction in push force taken from damage
Secondary attack : In the air, force the soldier to rapidly fall straight to the ground
Deals 3x falling damage to the player you land on and push back nearby enemies

Notes :
I'm thinking of this "stomp attack" like a Demoknight charge but vertical.It would make stomping someone head more reliable while still requiring a minimum of skill.

no; buff the passive effect so it has an actual use

every single pyro weapon mention

these are all horrible nerfs
trainwreck/10

Ali Baba's Wee Booties :
+35 max health on wearer
Full turning control while charging

Notes :
I think full turning control is the least you can expect in compensation of abandonning all of your explosive weapons.
The tide turner would still be efficient as the booties do not allow you to immediatly refill your charge meter

+25, not 35

Claidheamh Mòr :
+0.8 sec increase in charge duration per head (up to 4)
+60% increase in charge recharge rate
No random critical hits
-15 max health on wearer
+10% bullet vulnerability while charging

Notes :
It isn't indicated on any shield,but their bashing damage is actually improved by the heads you collect.I thought it was a shame that only the eyelander uses this mechanic.

mor is already one of the best demo melees
this just makes it blatantly op



Persian Persuader :
+100% increase in charge recharge rate
All ammo collected becomes health
No random critical hits
-50% health from healers when active

Notes :
The new downside is only effective if the player as the booties with him.
Indeed,having the booties on mean you don't need ammo and thus make this sword a weapon without any downside.

persian doesn't need another way to scare off people from using it with a primary

Tomislav :
Silent Killer: No barrel spin sound
Under 50 health,+70% faster spin up time
20% slower firing speed

tomi should be rebuffed to post nerf 1 pre nerf 2 if anything

Huo-Long Heater :
Damaging enemies fills up a "Dragon" meter
Upon reloading when the "Dragon" meter is full : bullets put enemies on fire during 8 seconds and a ring of flames is deployed
Cannot attack during 3 seconds after the "Dragon effect" wore out
25% slower spin up time
-50 max primary ammo on wearer

Notes :
The ring of fire is a lot of ammo wasted for a protection you can easily avoid, which is why I invented this whole new mechanic.


the ring of fire is already a big enough mistake of a design choice, this isn't helping


Buffalo Steak Sandvich :
While under the effects, move speed is increased,attacks deal mini-crit,+40 health upon kill, damage taken will be increased by 25%, and the player may only use melee weapons.

fine

Warrior's Spirit :
+30% damage bonus
On Hit: Bleed for 5 seconds
-20 max health on wearer

Eviction Notice :
+50% faster firing speed
On Hit: Bleed for 5 seconds
-60% damage penalty

reskins of eachother, change the EN


Holiday Punch :
Critical hit forces victim to laugh
Always critical hit from behind
On Hit: Force enemies to laugh who are also wearing this item
Critical hits do no damage
-20% damage penalty

Notes :
This weapon can insta-kill you with its showdown taunt kill while you cannot do anything.
Granted,it isn't easy to pull off and an enemy can save his teammate but I though a little downside would be welcome

sure

Southern Hospitality :
On Hit: Bleed for 7 seconds
No random critical hits
10% explosive damage vulnerability on wearer

just incase anybody in the world still used this weapon, they wont anymore

Jag :
50% faster construction rate
15% faster upgrade rate
50% slower repair rate

Notes :
The jag is probably one of the weapon I'd like to see buffed the most as the effect is interesting but not prononced enough.

RR breaks this



Eureka Effect :
Press your reload key to choose to teleport to spawn or your exit teleporter
While hauling a building : -20% movement speed
Marked for death for a short period after redeploying

the get out of jail free card doesn't really need any changes


Overdose :
-15% damage penalty
-25% clip size
Movement speed increases based on ÜberCharge percentage to a maximum of +20%

why would this need a buff

Solemn Vow :
Allows you to see enemy health
-60% damage penalty

Notes :
"Do no harm",right?

sure


Razorback :
+40% damage resistance for all attacks coming from behind
Blocks a single backstab attempt

Notes :
The damage resistance would allow a sniper to retreat more easily if he doesn't attempt to fight back with his rifle.
Breaking the Razorback removes the resistance.

lolno

Your Eternal Reward :
Upon a successful backstab against a human target, you rapidly disguise as your victim
Silent Killer: No attack noise from backstabs and no decloaking sound
Wearer cannot disguise

Don't give the DR idiots more bait

Spy-cicle :
Silent Killer: No attack noise from backstabs
On Hit by Fire: Become fireproof for 2 seconds
Backstab turns victim to ice
Melts in fire, regenerates after 20 seconds
+20% explosive damage vulnerability

removing the lack of killfeed notices is more important


Red-Tape Recorder :
Temporarly reverses enemy building construction
Upon removal : prevent enemy building upgrade for the next 12 seconds
-100% sapper damage penalty


Notes :
After the 12 seconds, the building is automatically reverted back to the level it was before the sapping (while conserving the damage it took).
An un-upgradable building would have sparkles coming out of it.
The reason for this change is that, as opposed to a building sapped with the stock sapper where the engy only needs to spend a few metal to fix the damage, the enemy engy will need to spend at least 200 metal to repair what the spy did.
In compensation for this change,the reversing could be made faster.

this is a buff to the rtr
no

Last edited by slop; Jul 21, 2014 @ 11:40am
NAХRЮER Jul 21, 2014 @ 11:40am 
why yes, i see you put a lot of throught into this list.
Zipnet Jul 21, 2014 @ 11:50am 
Originally posted by -ғʙᴄ- Sgt Doe Crits:
I clearly see that you hate pyro a lot... Giving things like the Neon thingy a nerf for being UP already... woah. Also the Eternal Reward buff is imo OP with Dead Ringer. They removed the sets for good reasons. The near 0 decloak sound was one of the biggest reasons.

A clear no on Spy + Pyro stuff.

I'll admit I had a hard time coming up with something for the pyro and the spy.
I went though a number of changes for those weapons and none really fully satisfied me.
It isn't so much hate as not really knowing what would fit well with the rest of the pyro loadout.

For the Eternal Reward, I previously though about 20% more cloak time,a bit like L'étranger.
For the Neon Annihilator, I do not really thing being wet longer is that much of a nerf as it doesn't benefit a lot of weapon for your enemies.

Something I'm not really sure about though is the Axtiguisher.I know a lot of people use it so I didn't want to get too harsh on it but at the same time it can be very powerful.I'm not really satisfied with what I got but I'm short of other ideas.
Sgt Doe Crits Jul 21, 2014 @ 11:53am 
Originally posted by Zipnet:
Originally posted by -ғʙᴄ- Sgt Doe Crits:
I clearly see that you hate pyro a lot... Giving things like the Neon thingy a nerf for being UP already... woah. Also the Eternal Reward buff is imo OP with Dead Ringer. They removed the sets for good reasons. The near 0 decloak sound was one of the biggest reasons.

A clear no on Spy + Pyro stuff.

I'll admit I had a hard time coming up with something for the pyro and the spy.
I went though a number of changes for those weapons and none really fully satisfied me.
It isn't so much hate as not really knowing what would fit well with the rest of the pyro loadout.

For the Eternal Reward, I previously though about 20% more cloak time,a bit like L'étranger.
For the Neon Annihilator, I do not really thing being wet longer is that much of a nerf as it doesn't benefit a lot of weapon for your enemies.

Something I'm not really sure about though is the Axtiguisher.I know a lot of people use it so I didn't want to get too harsh on it but at the same time it can be very powerful.I'm not really satisfied with what I got but I'm short of other ideas.
About Neon:
-> 11s of Jarate applied. Do you think thats funny?
About prev. YER thoughts
-> Actually interesting, I'd like that
About Pyro nerfs in general:
-> The pyro has enough problems already with range.
Dealing with Spies is his primary job anyways, so keeping
him the way he is now is absolutely fine.
Tsuyu Asui [Mercy] Jul 21, 2014 @ 11:54am 
The hell? Did you just nerf the Homewrecker? Nope. Not reading the rest.
zettai ryouiki Jul 21, 2014 @ 11:54am 
This thread
is too long
I can't
I can't
read it
MASSIVE TL;DR ALERT
Sir Zorba Jul 21, 2014 @ 11:55am 
Originally posted by GPB Labrys:
The hell? Did you just nerf the Homewrecker? Nope. Not reading the rest.
Anything pyro in the post was a nerf and many of the rest were extremely strange ideas. You're not missing out on much.
Yui (Banned) Jul 21, 2014 @ 11:57am 
>implying powerjack is OP
I'm sorry but do you realize how much incoming damage you take with that 20%? sure you get a speed boost, but why would we need a longer weapon switch too? just to make pyro squishy for a longer time?
Zipnet Jul 21, 2014 @ 12:21pm 
Originally posted by slop:
Originally posted by Zipnet:
Hello readers.
Persian Persuader :
+100% increase in charge recharge rate
All ammo collected becomes health
No random critical hits
-50% health from healers when active

Notes :
The new downside is only effective if the player as the booties with him.
Indeed,having the booties on mean you don't need ammo and thus make this sword a weapon without any downside.

persian doesn't need another way to scare off people from using it with a primary

Jag :
50% faster construction rate
15% faster upgrade rate
50% slower repair rate

Notes :
The jag is probably one of the weapon I'd like to see buffed the most as the effect is interesting but not prononced enough.

RR breaks this

Overdose :
-15% damage penalty
-25% clip size
Movement speed increases based on ÜberCharge percentage to a maximum of +20%

why would this need a buff

The downside to the Persian Persuader is not applied when your primary is out.
I completely forgot about the Rescue Ranger.I'll edit the description with a new idea.
The effect of the Overdose isn't very noticeable in my opinion.


Originally posted by -ғʙᴄ- Sgt Doe Crits:
About Pyro nerfs in general:
-> The pyro has enough problems already with range.
Dealing with Spies is his primary job anyways, so keeping
him the way he is now is absolutely fine.

I'll admit I don't really see how the change I proposed affect the ranged attack of the Pyro.
Is there something I'm not understanding?
Last edited by Zipnet; Jul 21, 2014 @ 12:22pm
Zipnet Jul 28, 2014 @ 4:45am 
Hello people.

I made some changes to the list :
-I slightly changed the stats on the Homewrecker,the Southern Hospitality and the Claidheamh Mòr.
-For the YER, I removed the silent decloaking and added more cloaking time, similar to L'étranger.
-I completely changed the behavior of the Red-Tape Recorder.

See my first post for more information.
Zipnet Sep 2, 2014 @ 5:41am 
Hello people.

I've added the Back Scratcher to the list with a minor change.
I've also removed the Eviction Notice and the Warrior Spirit as the change I put on them wasn't as necessary as I imagined at first.
Manulel (Banned) Sep 2, 2014 @ 5:55am 
You just necroed your own dead thread
I approve many of these.
Mantreads, Back Scratcher, Claidheamh Mòr (had the same idea :P), Buffalo Steak Sandvich and Holiday Punch are weapons that really could get those changes. But Homewrecker, Powerjack, Third Degree, Persian Persuader, Southern Hospitality, Your Eternal Reward, Spy-cicle and Red-Tape Recorder changes you said are garbish ;&
Zipnet Sep 2, 2014 @ 7:12am 
Originally posted by Manulel007:
You just necroed your own dead thread

I prefer doing that than making a new thread with the same content.
This thread was still there.I might as well use it.

Originally posted by Crates:
I approve many of these.
Mantreads, Back Scratcher, Claidheamh Mòr (had the same idea :P), Buffalo Steak Sandvich and Holiday Punch are weapons that really could get those changes. But Homewrecker, Powerjack, Third Degree, Persian Persuader, Southern Hospitality, Your Eternal Reward, Spy-cicle and Red-Tape Recorder changes you said are garbish ;&

Basically,you disagree with the changes on Pyro and Spy.
Is there anything I could do to make it less "garbish"?

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Date Posted: Jul 21, 2014 @ 11:13am
Posts: 161