Zipnet Jul 21 @ 11:13am
My liste of ideas to improve the balance of TF2
Hello readers.

I don't know about you but I think this game may have a little bit of a balance issue,as some weapons clearly stomp their competitions while others never even leave their owners backpack.

Here is a list of changes which,in my humble opinion, would get TF2 closer to a perfect balance (even if I know than a perfect balance is nearly impossible to reach).
On some weapons, I'll explain my reasoning for the change I'd like to see put in place.

Onward we go!

Sun-on-a-stick :
When on fire, +20% speed and +15% resistance to bullet damage
35% fire damage vulnerability

Mantreads :
-75% reduction in push force taken from damage
Secondary attack : In the air, force the soldier to rapidly fall straight to the ground
Deals 3x falling damage to the player you land on and push back nearby enemies

Notes :
I'm thinking of this "stomp attack" like a Demoknight charge but vertical.It would make stomping someone head more reliable while still requiring a minimum of skill.

Axtinguisher :
100% critical hits vs burning players
No random critical hits
8% bullet damage vulnerability

Notes :
A big problem I have with the pyro melee is their ill-conceived tendancy to have a damage penalty as their downside when your main source of melee damage is your primary weapon.
This is the reason why I changed most of the pyro's melees to have other downsides than just having less damage.

Homewrecker :
100% more damage vs buildings
Able to removes Sappers
-10 max health on wearer

Powerjack :
+25% faster move speed on wearer
+75 health restored on kill
20% damage vulnerability when active
20% longer weapon switch

Back Scratcher :
+15 max health on wearer
+50% health from packs on wearer
-60% health from healers on wearer

Sharpened Volcano Fragment :
On Hit: target is engulfed in flames
Afterburn damage on enemies hit by this weapon is partially converted into health
-20 max health on wearer

Notes :
The healing effect would be like a mad milk working only for you.
The afterburn needs to come from this weapon.Enflamming your opponent with an other weapon after hitting him with this one cancel the effect.

Third Degree :
All players connected via Medigun beams are hit
You receive the damage inflicted to any medic connected to you

Notes :
Your medic won't receive any damage you take as he wouldn't know that you have this weapon and would be damaged without knowing why.

Neon Annihilator :
100% critical hit vs wet players
No random critical hits
You stay wet 3 sec longer

Ali Baba's Wee Booties :
+35 max health on wearer
Full turning control while charging

Notes :
I think full turning control is the least you can expect in compensation of abandonning all of your explosive weapons.
The tide turner would still be efficient as the booties do not allow you to immediatly refill your charge meter

Claidheamh Mòr :
+0.6 sec increase in charge duration per head (up to 4)
+40% increase in charge recharge rate
No random critical hits
-15 max health on wearer
+8% bullet vulnerability while charging

Notes :
It isn't indicated on any shield,but their bashing damage is actually improved by the heads you collect.I thought it was a shame that only the eyelander uses this mechanic.

Persian Persuader :
+100% increase in charge recharge rate
All ammo collected becomes health
No random critical hits
-50% health from healers when active

Notes :
The new downside is only effective if the player as the booties with him.
Indeed,having the booties on mean you don't need ammo and thus make this sword a weapon without any downside.

Tomislav :
+40% faster spin up time
Silent Killer: No barrel spin sound
20% slower firing speed

Huo-Long Heater :
Damaging enemies fills up a "Dragon" meter
Upon reloading when the "Dragon" meter is full : bullets put enemies on fire during 8 seconds and a ring of flames is deployed
Cannot attack during 3 seconds after the "Dragon effect" wore out
25% slower spin up time
-50 max primary ammo on wearer

Notes :
The ring of fire is a lot of ammo wasted for a protection you can easily avoid, which is why I invented this whole new mechanic.
The afterburn time would be 60% of the value of a normal afterburn (inspired by "Digitic").

Buffalo Steak Sandvich :
While under the effects, move speed is increased,attacks deal mini-crit,+40 health upon kill, damage taken will be increased by 25%, and the player may only use melee weapons.

Killing Gloves of Boxing :
On Kill: 5 seconds of 100% critical chance
30% slower firing speed

Holiday Punch :
Critical hit forces victim to laugh
Always critical hit from behind
On Hit: Force enemies to laugh who are also wearing this item
Critical hits do no damage
-20% damage penalty

Notes :
This weapon can insta-kill you with its showdown taunt kill while you cannot do anything.
Granted,it isn't easy to pull off and an enemy can save his teammate but I though a little downside would be welcome

Southern Hospitality :
On Hit: Bleed for 7 seconds
No random critical hits
10% explosive damage vulnerability on wearer

Jag :
50% faster construction rate
15% slower upgrade rate

Notes :
The jag is probably one of the weapon I'd like to see buffed the most as the effect is interesting but not prononced enough.

Eureka Effect :
Press your reload key to choose to teleport to spawn or your exit teleporter
While hauling a building : -20% movement speed
Marked for death for a short period after redeploying

Overdose :
-15% damage penalty
-25% clip size
Movement speed increases based on ÜberCharge percentage to a maximum of +15%

Übersaw :
On Hit: 25% ÜberCharge added
40% slower firing speed

Vita-saw :
On death up to 20% of your stored ÜberCharge is retained
-2 health drained per second on wearer

Solemn Vow :
Allows you to see enemy health
-60% damage penalty

Notes :
"Do no harm",right?

The Classic :
Charge and fire shots independent of zoom
No headshots when less than 50% charged
-10% damage on body shot

Razorback :
+40% damage resistance for all attacks coming from behind
Blocks a single backstab attempt
---OR---
-20% damage from close and mid ranged sources while active
Blocks a single backstab attempt

Notes :
The first choice would allow a sniper to retreat more easily if he doesn't attempt to fight back with his rifle.
The second choice (proposed by "Marshal") would give a sniper a better chance to fight back an enemy who managed to take him by surprise.
Breaking the Razorback removes the resistance for both choices.

Cozy Camper :
+2 health regenerated per second on wearer
No flinching when charging shot
Knockback reduced by 20% when charging shot
-10% move speed

Notes :
The current damage penalty works against the advantages this weapon gives.
I put "charging" instead of "zooming" to take the Classic into account.

Bushwacka :
Crits whenever it would normally mini-crit
No random critical hits
Without crit or mini-crit : 40% less damage

Notes :
A sniper is pretty sure to die against a Pyro even without penality.

Your Eternal Reward :
Upon a successful backstab against a human target, you rapidly disguise as your victim
Silent Killer: No attack noise from backstabs and silent decloak
Wearer cannot disguise
---OR---
Upon a successful backstab against a human target, you rapidly disguise as your victim
Silent Killer: No attack noise from backstabs
+20% more cloak time
Wearer cannot disguise

Spy-cicle :
Silent Killer: No attack noise from backstabs
On Hit by Fire: Become fireproof for 2 seconds
Backstab turns victim to ice
Melts in fire, regenerates after 20 seconds
+20% explosive damage vulnerability

Red-Tape Recorder :
Temporarly forces enemy buildings back to level 1
Upon removal : prevent enemy building upgrade for up to 8 seconds
-100% damage penalty

Notes :
The sapper would be impossible to remove while it forces buildings to level 1.
After this,it would stay attached to the building and would disable it without causing damage.Here,the sapper can be removed and the building re-enabled.
The period during which the building is un-upgradable would be between 2 and 8 seconds.It would be decided by the time the sapper stayed attached : the longer it stayed,the longer the building will take before upgrading.
After this period, the building is automatically reverted back to the level it was before the sapping (while conserving the damage it took in-between).
An un-upgradable building would have sparkles coming out of it as a visual indication of its state.
The forced deconstruction and subsequent reconstruction would be much quicker than normal.
The reason for this change is that, as opposed to a building sapped with the stock sapper where the engy only needs to spend a few metal to fix the damage, the enemy engy will need to spend at least 200 metal to repair what the spy did.

This ends this list.
Please remember that this is only based on my opinions and avoid any flame war.

Any commentary will be welcomed.
Last edited by Zipnet; Sep 5 @ 1:57pm
Showing 1-15 of 44 comments
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-ᴀʙ- Sgt Doe Crits Jul 21 @ 11:35am 
I clearly see that you hate pyro a lot... Giving things like the Neon thingy a nerf for being UP already... woah. Also the Eternal Reward buff is imo OP with Dead Ringer. They removed the sets for good reasons. The near 0 decloak sound was one of the biggest reasons.

A clear no on Spy + Pyro stuff.

The Heavy's Hou-Long heater mechanism is interesting, it would give a good diversity.
The solem vow is more than reasonable. A definite yes.
The Claidheamh Mör is a bit too strong. maybe 0.4-0.5s per head added AND only 40% increased recharge. Otherwise, yeah, it is a good buff.
slop Jul 21 @ 11:39am 
Originally posted by Zipnet:
Hello readers.
Sun-on-a-stick :
When on fire, +20% speed and +15% resistance to bullet damage
35% fire damage vulnerability

scout doesn't need more speed

Mantreads :
-75% reduction in push force taken from damage
Secondary attack : In the air, force the soldier to rapidly fall straight to the ground
Deals 3x falling damage to the player you land on and push back nearby enemies

Notes :
I'm thinking of this "stomp attack" like a Demoknight charge but vertical.It would make stomping someone head more reliable while still requiring a minimum of skill.

no; buff the passive effect so it has an actual use

every single pyro weapon mention

these are all horrible nerfs
trainwreck/10

Ali Baba's Wee Booties :
+35 max health on wearer
Full turning control while charging

Notes :
I think full turning control is the least you can expect in compensation of abandonning all of your explosive weapons.
The tide turner would still be efficient as the booties do not allow you to immediatly refill your charge meter

+25, not 35

Claidheamh Mòr :
+0.8 sec increase in charge duration per head (up to 4)
+60% increase in charge recharge rate
No random critical hits
-15 max health on wearer
+10% bullet vulnerability while charging

Notes :
It isn't indicated on any shield,but their bashing damage is actually improved by the heads you collect.I thought it was a shame that only the eyelander uses this mechanic.

mor is already one of the best demo melees
this just makes it blatantly op



Persian Persuader :
+100% increase in charge recharge rate
All ammo collected becomes health
No random critical hits
-50% health from healers when active

Notes :
The new downside is only effective if the player as the booties with him.
Indeed,having the booties on mean you don't need ammo and thus make this sword a weapon without any downside.

persian doesn't need another way to scare off people from using it with a primary

Tomislav :
Silent Killer: No barrel spin sound
Under 50 health,+70% faster spin up time
20% slower firing speed

tomi should be rebuffed to post nerf 1 pre nerf 2 if anything

Huo-Long Heater :
Damaging enemies fills up a "Dragon" meter
Upon reloading when the "Dragon" meter is full : bullets put enemies on fire during 8 seconds and a ring of flames is deployed
Cannot attack during 3 seconds after the "Dragon effect" wore out
25% slower spin up time
-50 max primary ammo on wearer

Notes :
The ring of fire is a lot of ammo wasted for a protection you can easily avoid, which is why I invented this whole new mechanic.


the ring of fire is already a big enough mistake of a design choice, this isn't helping


Buffalo Steak Sandvich :
While under the effects, move speed is increased,attacks deal mini-crit,+40 health upon kill, damage taken will be increased by 25%, and the player may only use melee weapons.

fine

Warrior's Spirit :
+30% damage bonus
On Hit: Bleed for 5 seconds
-20 max health on wearer

Eviction Notice :
+50% faster firing speed
On Hit: Bleed for 5 seconds
-60% damage penalty

reskins of eachother, change the EN


Holiday Punch :
Critical hit forces victim to laugh
Always critical hit from behind
On Hit: Force enemies to laugh who are also wearing this item
Critical hits do no damage
-20% damage penalty

Notes :
This weapon can insta-kill you with its showdown taunt kill while you cannot do anything.
Granted,it isn't easy to pull off and an enemy can save his teammate but I though a little downside would be welcome

sure

Southern Hospitality :
On Hit: Bleed for 7 seconds
No random critical hits
10% explosive damage vulnerability on wearer

just incase anybody in the world still used this weapon, they wont anymore

Jag :
50% faster construction rate
15% faster upgrade rate
50% slower repair rate

Notes :
The jag is probably one of the weapon I'd like to see buffed the most as the effect is interesting but not prononced enough.

RR breaks this



Eureka Effect :
Press your reload key to choose to teleport to spawn or your exit teleporter
While hauling a building : -20% movement speed
Marked for death for a short period after redeploying

the get out of jail free card doesn't really need any changes


Overdose :
-15% damage penalty
-25% clip size
Movement speed increases based on ÜberCharge percentage to a maximum of +20%

why would this need a buff

Solemn Vow :
Allows you to see enemy health
-60% damage penalty

Notes :
"Do no harm",right?

sure


Razorback :
+40% damage resistance for all attacks coming from behind
Blocks a single backstab attempt

Notes :
The damage resistance would allow a sniper to retreat more easily if he doesn't attempt to fight back with his rifle.
Breaking the Razorback removes the resistance.

lolno

Your Eternal Reward :
Upon a successful backstab against a human target, you rapidly disguise as your victim
Silent Killer: No attack noise from backstabs and no decloaking sound
Wearer cannot disguise

Don't give the DR idiots more bait

Spy-cicle :
Silent Killer: No attack noise from backstabs
On Hit by Fire: Become fireproof for 2 seconds
Backstab turns victim to ice
Melts in fire, regenerates after 20 seconds
+20% explosive damage vulnerability

removing the lack of killfeed notices is more important


Red-Tape Recorder :
Temporarly reverses enemy building construction
Upon removal : prevent enemy building upgrade for the next 12 seconds
-100% sapper damage penalty


Notes :
After the 12 seconds, the building is automatically reverted back to the level it was before the sapping (while conserving the damage it took).
An un-upgradable building would have sparkles coming out of it.
The reason for this change is that, as opposed to a building sapped with the stock sapper where the engy only needs to spend a few metal to fix the damage, the enemy engy will need to spend at least 200 metal to repair what the spy did.
In compensation for this change,the reversing could be made faster.

this is a buff to the rtr
no

Last edited by slop; Jul 21 @ 11:40am
gagik_black Jul 21 @ 11:40am 
why yes, i see you put a lot of throught into this list.
Zipnet Jul 21 @ 11:50am 
Originally posted by -ғʙᴄ- Sgt Doe Crits:
I clearly see that you hate pyro a lot... Giving things like the Neon thingy a nerf for being UP already... woah. Also the Eternal Reward buff is imo OP with Dead Ringer. They removed the sets for good reasons. The near 0 decloak sound was one of the biggest reasons.

A clear no on Spy + Pyro stuff.

I'll admit I had a hard time coming up with something for the pyro and the spy.
I went though a number of changes for those weapons and none really fully satisfied me.
It isn't so much hate as not really knowing what would fit well with the rest of the pyro loadout.

For the Eternal Reward, I previously though about 20% more cloak time,a bit like L'étranger.
For the Neon Annihilator, I do not really thing being wet longer is that much of a nerf as it doesn't benefit a lot of weapon for your enemies.

Something I'm not really sure about though is the Axtiguisher.I know a lot of people use it so I didn't want to get too harsh on it but at the same time it can be very powerful.I'm not really satisfied with what I got but I'm short of other ideas.
-ᴀʙ- Sgt Doe Crits Jul 21 @ 11:53am 
Originally posted by Zipnet:
Originally posted by -ғʙᴄ- Sgt Doe Crits:
I clearly see that you hate pyro a lot... Giving things like the Neon thingy a nerf for being UP already... woah. Also the Eternal Reward buff is imo OP with Dead Ringer. They removed the sets for good reasons. The near 0 decloak sound was one of the biggest reasons.

A clear no on Spy + Pyro stuff.

I'll admit I had a hard time coming up with something for the pyro and the spy.
I went though a number of changes for those weapons and none really fully satisfied me.
It isn't so much hate as not really knowing what would fit well with the rest of the pyro loadout.

For the Eternal Reward, I previously though about 20% more cloak time,a bit like L'étranger.
For the Neon Annihilator, I do not really thing being wet longer is that much of a nerf as it doesn't benefit a lot of weapon for your enemies.

Something I'm not really sure about though is the Axtiguisher.I know a lot of people use it so I didn't want to get too harsh on it but at the same time it can be very powerful.I'm not really satisfied with what I got but I'm short of other ideas.
About Neon:
-> 11s of Jarate applied. Do you think thats funny?
About prev. YER thoughts
-> Actually interesting, I'd like that
About Pyro nerfs in general:
-> The pyro has enough problems already with range.
Dealing with Spies is his primary job anyways, so keeping
him the way he is now is absolutely fine.
SnowYews [10 Years on Steem] Jul 21 @ 11:54am 
The hell? Did you just nerf the Homewrecker? Nope. Not reading the rest.
Sonicfizz Jul 21 @ 11:54am 
This thread
is too long
I can't
I can't
read it
MASSIVE TL;DR ALERT
Sir Zorba Jul 21 @ 11:55am 
Originally posted by GPB Labrys:
The hell? Did you just nerf the Homewrecker? Nope. Not reading the rest.
Anything pyro in the post was a nerf and many of the rest were extremely strange ideas. You're not missing out on much.
Malik Blishtar (Banned) Jul 21 @ 11:57am 
>implying powerjack is OP
I'm sorry but do you realize how much incoming damage you take with that 20%? sure you get a speed boost, but why would we need a longer weapon switch too? just to make pyro squishy for a longer time?
Zipnet Jul 21 @ 12:21pm 
Originally posted by slop:
Originally posted by Zipnet:
Hello readers.
Persian Persuader :
+100% increase in charge recharge rate
All ammo collected becomes health
No random critical hits
-50% health from healers when active

Notes :
The new downside is only effective if the player as the booties with him.
Indeed,having the booties on mean you don't need ammo and thus make this sword a weapon without any downside.

persian doesn't need another way to scare off people from using it with a primary

Jag :
50% faster construction rate
15% faster upgrade rate
50% slower repair rate

Notes :
The jag is probably one of the weapon I'd like to see buffed the most as the effect is interesting but not prononced enough.

RR breaks this

Overdose :
-15% damage penalty
-25% clip size
Movement speed increases based on ÜberCharge percentage to a maximum of +20%

why would this need a buff

The downside to the Persian Persuader is not applied when your primary is out.
I completely forgot about the Rescue Ranger.I'll edit the description with a new idea.
The effect of the Overdose isn't very noticeable in my opinion.


Originally posted by -ғʙᴄ- Sgt Doe Crits:
About Pyro nerfs in general:
-> The pyro has enough problems already with range.
Dealing with Spies is his primary job anyways, so keeping
him the way he is now is absolutely fine.

I'll admit I don't really see how the change I proposed affect the ranged attack of the Pyro.
Is there something I'm not understanding?
Last edited by Zipnet; Jul 21 @ 12:22pm
Zipnet Jul 28 @ 4:45am 
Hello people.

I made some changes to the list :
-I slightly changed the stats on the Homewrecker,the Southern Hospitality and the Claidheamh Mòr.
-For the YER, I removed the silent decloaking and added more cloaking time, similar to L'étranger.
-I completely changed the behavior of the Red-Tape Recorder.

See my first post for more information.
Zipnet Sep 2 @ 5:41am 
Hello people.

I've added the Back Scratcher to the list with a minor change.
I've also removed the Eviction Notice and the Warrior Spirit as the change I put on them wasn't as necessary as I imagined at first.
Manulel007 (Banned) Sep 2 @ 5:55am 
You just necroed your own dead thread
Beginners (but not a N00b) Sep 2 @ 6:08am 
I approve many of these.
Mantreads, Back Scratcher, Claidheamh Mòr (had the same idea :P), Buffalo Steak Sandvich and Holiday Punch are weapons that really could get those changes. But Homewrecker, Powerjack, Third Degree, Persian Persuader, Southern Hospitality, Your Eternal Reward, Spy-cicle and Red-Tape Recorder changes you said are garbish ;&
Zipnet Sep 2 @ 7:12am 
Originally posted by Manulel007:
You just necroed your own dead thread

I prefer doing that than making a new thread with the same content.
This thread was still there.I might as well use it.

Originally posted by Crates:
I approve many of these.
Mantreads, Back Scratcher, Claidheamh Mòr (had the same idea :P), Buffalo Steak Sandvich and Holiday Punch are weapons that really could get those changes. But Homewrecker, Powerjack, Third Degree, Persian Persuader, Southern Hospitality, Your Eternal Reward, Spy-cicle and Red-Tape Recorder changes you said are garbish ;&

Basically,you disagree with the changes on Pyro and Spy.
Is there anything I could do to make it less "garbish"?

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Date Posted: Jul 21 @ 11:13am
Posts: 44