Zuko Jul 24, 2014 @ 4:09am
What makes the bushwacka ok, but not the axtinguisher?
I never ever hear people complain about the bushwacka. You throw some jarate at someone and melee them for a 195 damage crit. Sound familiar? Now sure, jarate has to recharge, but most typical ideal spots for sniper have a resupply nearby, and if it's a good sniper, people won't typically get so close enough before it recharges, so it's pretty accessable most of the time.

Here's the problem though: Sniper isn't meant to be a melee range class. He is designed to excell in long range.

Pyro is designed for close quarters, and the axtinguisher used to be good in close quarters.


The difference is, people complained about one and not the other. Why? Well the answer is quite simple. Sniper is a popular class, and Pyro is the class everyone hates on.

No, I'm not hating on the bushwacka. I'm simply stating that nerfs should be based on balance, and not what people complain about the most because they don't know how to counter. I'm not just going to speak up for pyro here. Heavy's nerf should be reverted as well. Both of those nerfs were absolutly terrible.

I will agree that puff and sting was OP, but the axe itself wasn't the heart of the problem, it was the degreaser. 65% is way too fast and makes it way too easy to land that hit. I heard that there were plans to lower this switch speed in the past but it never went through. I can't imagine why. You were on the right track, Valve. Turning the axtinguisher into a crappy version of the backburner just isn't the answer.
Showing 1-15 of 69 comments
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denk Jul 24, 2014 @ 4:14am 
you could always outrun the sniper. unless your a heavy, to which point you shouldn't even be near a sniper.
Last edited by denk; Jul 24, 2014 @ 4:30am
Midgetbullfighter Jul 24, 2014 @ 4:20am 
Valve is just trying their hardest to make everybody happy. When the nerfs came into effect, all the kids who couldn't stop complaining about the weapons in the first place were all happy. Meanwhile, everybody else suffered. They can't make everyone happy, so they tried to find some middle ground, and it didn't work out too well. Now they can't switch it back without everyone whining like they did beforehand.

The cycle never ends.
denk Jul 24, 2014 @ 4:22am 
Originally posted by Midgetbulfighter:
Valve is just trying their hardest to make everybody happy. When the nerfs came into effect, all the kids who couldn't stop complaining about the weapons in the first place were all happy. Meanwhile, everybody else suffered. They can't make everyone happy, so they tried to find some middle ground, and it didn't work out too well. Now they can't switch it back without everyone whining like they did beforehand.

The cycle never ends.
its a cycle of people who don't try at all and just want to one hit kill combo everything, its BS and i think its disgusting that the community is able to ruin certain classes with OP metas
Last edited by denk; Jul 24, 2014 @ 4:22am
Zuko Jul 24, 2014 @ 4:23am 
Originally posted by Midgetbulfighter:
Valve is just trying their hardest to make everybody happy. When the nerfs came into effect, all the kids who couldn't stop complaining about the weapons in the first place were all happy. Meanwhile, everybody else suffered. They can't make everyone happy, so they tried to find some middle ground, and it didn't work out too well. Now they can't switch it back without everyone whining like they did beforehand.

The cycle never ends.

Instead of trying to please everyone, which will never happen, they should doing what's fair.

People complaining because they don't know how to counter something > People complaining because they got screwed over by Valve listening to the wrong people.
Zuko Jul 24, 2014 @ 4:26am 
Originally posted by drekyl the fire titan:
Originally posted by Midgetbulfighter:
Valve is just trying their hardest to make everybody happy. When the nerfs came into effect, all the kids who couldn't stop complaining about the weapons in the first place were all happy. Meanwhile, everybody else suffered. They can't make everyone happy, so they tried to find some middle ground, and it didn't work out too well. Now they can't switch it back without everyone whining like they did beforehand.

The cycle never ends.
its a cycle of people who don't try at all and just want to one hit kill combo everything, its BS and i think its disgusting that the community is able to ruin certain classes with OP metas

Note how everyone just glanced over your first comment and moved on without even bothering to respond. The moment you posted "git gud" kind of kicked out any credibility you would have had in this conversation when you made it so obvious that you're just a troll with your private profile.
Midgetbullfighter Jul 24, 2014 @ 4:27am 
Originally posted by Zuko:
People complaining because they don't know how to counter something > People complaining because they got screwed over by Valve listening to the wrong people.
I know, I know, it's kinda ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. But think about it, who does Valve care about the most? Pub players. Pub players are their main source of money and the largest pool of players, so it'd make sense that they'd listen to their complaints more and pander their balances towards what they want.
denk Jul 24, 2014 @ 4:30am 
Originally posted by Zuko:
Originally posted by drekyl the fire titan:
its a cycle of people who don't try at all and just want to one hit kill combo everything, its BS and i think its disgusting that the community is able to ruin certain classes with OP metas

Note how everyone just glanced over your first comment and moved on without even bothering to respond. The moment you posted "git gud" kind of kicked out any credibility you would have had in this conversation when you made it so obvious that you're just a troll with your private profile.
i made my profile private so trolls like you can't go on it and post "MINUTH REP HE DIDNT AGREE WITH ME ON TEH FORAMS"
Midgetbullfighter Jul 24, 2014 @ 4:31am 
Originally posted by drekyl the fire titan:
i made my profile private so trolls like you can't go on it and post "MINUTH REP HE DIDNT AGREE WITH ME ON TEH FORAMS"
You know you can delete comments on your profile, right?
Zuko Jul 24, 2014 @ 4:32am 
Originally posted by Midgetbulfighter:
Originally posted by Zuko:
People complaining because they don't know how to counter something > People complaining because they got screwed over by Valve listening to the wrong people.
I know, I know, it's kinda ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. But think about it, who does Valve care about the most? Pub players. Pub players are their main source of money and the largest pool of players, so it'd make sense that they'd listen to their complaints more and pander their balances towards what they want.

And they're alienating the players who've been playing since the beginning in the process.

My friend and I just recently got $150 worth the tickets and keys so we could do some tours and unboxing. This is stuff we do every few months or so when we can afford to. If we end up leaving like so many veteran players have since F2P happened, that's also money lost. That goes for any other vets who've left. I hear a lot of pyro mains even left after the axe nerf. I myself went 2 weeks without TF2 after that happened, and only returned when friends begged.
Last edited by Zuko; Jul 24, 2014 @ 4:32am
denk Jul 24, 2014 @ 4:32am 
Originally posted by Midgetbulfighter:
Originally posted by drekyl the fire titan:
i made my profile private so trolls like you can't go on it and post "MINUTH REP HE DIDNT AGREE WITH ME ON TEH FORAMS"
You know you can delete comments on your profile, right?
yeh just, i can't be bothered to go and do it.
Midgetbullfighter Jul 24, 2014 @ 4:35am 
Originally posted by drekyl the fire titan:
Originally posted by Midgetbulfighter:
You know you can delete comments on your profile, right?
yeh just, i can't be bothered to go and do it.
Pressing a single button! What has the world come to?! I have to left click once to delete a comment? I can't do it with my mind powers? WHY VALVE WHY!!!
Midgetbullfighter Jul 24, 2014 @ 4:39am 
Originally posted by Zuko:
And they're alienating the players who've been playing since the beginning in the process.

My friend and I just recently got $150 worth the tickets and keys so we could do some tours and unboxing. This is stuff we do every few months or so when we can afford to. If we end up leaving like so many veteran players have since F2P happened, that's also money lost. That goes for any other vets who've left. I hear a lot of pyro mains even left after the axe nerf. I myself went 2 weeks without TF2 after that happened, and only returned when friends begged.
I see what you're saying. I guess you're right on that one. The same kinda went with the demo nerf. One of my demo main friends quit his HL team until the nerf was reverted, so I can see where you're coming from.
Walrus on LSD Jul 24, 2014 @ 4:39am 
Completely agree. It's so stupid, especially since bushwacka was more broken than the axetinguisher.

Originally posted by drekyl the fire titan:
you could always outrun the sniper. unless your a heavy, to which point you shouldn't even be near a sniper.

♥♥♥♥ing idiot, you can outrun sniper as easily as pyro because they have the same movespeed.
Last edited by Walrus on LSD; Jul 24, 2014 @ 4:41am
Midgetbullfighter Jul 24, 2014 @ 4:42am 
Originally posted by Walrus on LSD:
Completely agree. It's so stupid, especially since bushwacka was more broken than the axetinguisher.
Funny. I haven't heard people complain about the Bushwacka until after the pyro nerf. Tell me, how many times did you get legitamitely mad because of a Bushwacka death?
denk Jul 24, 2014 @ 4:42am 
Originally posted by Walrus on LSD:
Completely agree. It's so stupid, especially since bushwacka was more broken than the axetinguisher.
in what way? a sniper has less health than a pyro, sniper can't survive on the front lines like a pyro, sniper can't switch weapons quickly like a degreaser pyro, i don't get it bushwacka was just a simple way of letting snipers defend themselves easier
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Date Posted: Jul 24, 2014 @ 4:09am
Posts: 69