Soushi Mar 12, 2013 @ 9:05am
This game IS overcomplicated...
... and it doesn't have a tutorial. And ingame encyclopedia is not really helpful. So, I have two questions:
  • Is there a guide out there, that covers the basics of this thing and doen't involve reading 100+ pages of wiki articles? Prefferably, with the screenshots?
  • Is it fun to play? Should I even bother?
Last edited by Soushi; Mar 12, 2013 @ 2:29pm
Showing 1-15 of 63 comments
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cdnr1(ned) Mar 12, 2013 @ 2:18pm 
google
Drebian Mar 12, 2013 @ 2:28pm 
As much as I hate to admit it, I gave up on this game and went back to the first one... A while ago... Now I play Endless Space for my space fix... Not as freeform but still fun like the original SOTS...
Unwerth Mar 12, 2013 @ 3:47pm 
Would some videos do? Here are Rorschach's walk-throughs:
http://www.kerberos-productions.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=38253

Also, check out http://de.twitch.tv/terrakus/ I remember some of his videos where he commented on what he was doing and took questions from viewers, but I don't remember which they were. You'll have to check the first few minutes of his videos, and there's seven pages of the buggers. Sorry I can't be of more help.
D1g174l D00M Mar 12, 2013 @ 6:30pm 
If I have said it once I will say it again. This game does NOT hold your hand, while the mechanics are a bit muddy here and there, some actual experimenting with the game should reveal everything that you need to know in order to have a good experience.

There are severl lets plays on youtube and some tutorial videos on there as well. Just TRY a little bit. On a side note Endless Space is a bad joke compared to SoTSII...
Unwerth Mar 13, 2013 @ 1:54am 
Originally posted by Drebian:
As much as I hate to admit it, I gave up on this game and went back to the first one... A while ago... Now I play Endless Space for my space fix... Not as freeform but still fun like the original SOTS...

If you gave up recently, I don't see why. The game has gotten so much better and is actually really good now. If you've given up a while ago, I don't know why you're still here.
Soushi Mar 13, 2013 @ 1:59am 
Originally posted by Drebian:
As much as I hate to admit it, I gave up on this game and went back to the first one... A while ago... Now I play Endless Space for my space fix... Not as freeform but still fun like the original SOTS...
Yes, I play ES too, but I wanted to try SoTSII one more time. Looks like there are a lot of possibilities in this game, so it's woth a shot.

Originally posted by Unwerth:
Would some videos do? Here are Rorschach's walk-throughs:
http://www.kerberos-productions.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=38253
Thanks a lot, this should do it. I'll watch them later today and try it again.

Originally posted by D1g174l D00M:
If I have said it once I will say it again. This game does NOT hold your hand, while the mechanics are a bit muddy here and there, some actual experimenting with the game should reveal everything that you need to know in order to have a good experience.
Well, I'm perfectly fine with not-so-newbie-friendly games. It's just that, for some reason, I can't play thist one by "trial and error" style. I don't know why, it just doesn't work for me and I tried two times already.
I'll watch the tutorials and give it another chanse.
Last edited by Soushi; Mar 13, 2013 @ 2:01am
dereknor Mar 13, 2013 @ 5:42am 
I like it when games are hard to learn and you need to find out how things work. But not in a space strategy game! I like it in rogue games like The Pit or Minecraft.
But in a strategy game, I need to know all basics. I mean, if I'm a Emperor of a big space empire, I wouldnt sit at my desk and just wonder "hmm, how do I order my troops now" and just press some buttons ;)

And the reason the game is that hard to learn isnt because it is meant to be hard. They just missed to make the tutorial yet and a real Guide.
Specially a space game that is soo complex needs a good Tutorial. It will still be very hard to play and to learn all the strategies. But the basics on how to control your game should never be a try&error game.

And another thing is, most things you just CANT learn. You need to find the facts somewhere on google. So its not a hard learning curve, there is just information missing and you need to find them somewhere on the internet. Of cause, you can sell that as a "hard to learn" feature ;) That way, you could just sell every game without tutorial and Guide and just say its a hard to learn game.
Unwerth Mar 13, 2013 @ 5:45pm 
Originally posted by dereknor:
But in a strategy game, I need to know all basics.

The basics are in the manual. Just saying.
Quartz Mar 13, 2013 @ 6:14pm 
Originally posted by Unwerth:
If you gave up recently, I don't see why. The game has gotten so much better and is actually really good now. If you've given up a while ago, I don't know why you're still here.

Because the game is still hard and overcomplicated, like the original poster said.

Because there is hope that the dev will get some of the irrelevant mechanics out in a future patch.

Because we may find some amateur that patches the system removing some of the obnoxiousness out of it (like they did to the mod that speed things up, it is managed code after all).

Because we like to p*ss off rude ***holes that ask why you hang around a game you don' t currently like, but which you still hold a spark of hope.

Because we like to p*ss off rude fanbois that tell you to beat it because you reply with a relevant, on-topic opinion about how the game is not perfect.
Last edited by Quartz; Mar 13, 2013 @ 6:37pm
Cheeks Mar 13, 2013 @ 8:55pm 
This game is REALLY overcomplicated, I agree.

Here's a simple example. Building a fleet and sending it to a planet. A trivial task.

Sword of the Stars:
Step one: Make and save design(s)
Step two: Build desired ship(s). Ships automatically grouped into a fleet.
Step four: Select fleet
Step five: Right click on a planet.

Sword of the Stars II:
Step one: Make and Save Design(s)
Step two: Build really expensive prototype(s)
Step three: Build ships
Step four: Click Create Fleet
Step five: Assign an admiral
Step six: Right click on a planet.
Step seven: Select your mission
Step eight: Select the fleet to carry out the mission (The best part about this is that, if the fleet is already highlighted on your UI, you STILL HAVE TO DO THIS UNNECESSARY STEP)
Step nine: FINALLY send your ships out.

Aesthetic Demon Mar 13, 2013 @ 9:06pm 
Originally posted by Initiate Musty Cheeks:
This game is REALLY overcomplicated, I agree.

Here's a simple example. Building a fleet and sending it to a planet. A trivial task.

Sword of the Stars:
Step one: Make and save design(s)
Step two: Build desired ship(s). Ships automatically grouped into a fleet.
Step four: Select fleet
Step five: Right click on a planet.

Sword of the Stars II:
Step one: Make and Save Design(s)
Step two: Build really expensive prototype(s)
Step three: Build ships
Step four: Click Create Fleet
Step five: Assign an admiral
Step six: Right click on a planet.
Step seven: Select your mission
Step eight: Select the fleet to carry out the mission (The best part about this is that, if the fleet is already highlighted on your UI, you STILL HAVE TO DO THIS UNNECESSARY STEP)
Step nine: FINALLY send your ships out.

You forgot Step 10 - Scream in frustration when after waiting 5 turns for the fleet to arrive at its destination, it failes to find and destroy all enemy vessels within the 3 mins permitted for battle, and turns around and spends 5 turns coming home without completing it's mission...

Soushi Mar 14, 2013 @ 5:24am 
Okay, so I watched Rorschach's videos and it finally started to make some sense. Macro in this game is great, especially economical part, but the combat phase is a mess -_-
I'll wait for the ship design & combat videos and will try it again.
Thank you all for the help, much appreciated.

Originally posted by Aesthetic Demon:
You forgot Step 10 - Scream in frustration when after waiting 5 turns for the fleet to arrive at its destination, it failes to find and destroy all enemy vessels within the 3 mins permitted for battle, and turns around and spends 5 turns coming home without completing it's mission...
This 3 min per battle rule is the most puzzling. Why? Just... why?
Commodore Dannerson Mar 14, 2013 @ 9:36am 
you can max it up to 12 mins in the setup i think.
Unwerth Mar 14, 2013 @ 3:20pm 
Also it's 5 minutes standard. But that's just nitpicking, of course.

The only scenario where I can think of this happening is with a survey mission. Use drones and/or battle riders for these. Not only do they help surveying, making the mission take less turns, the riders are extremely useful when you have to find enemy fleets.

Oh, and if there's an enemy colony, always choose invade unless you really only want to poke at it or are confident you can beat it in one turn.

@Quartz: Excuse me, but I haven't used any insults or anything, I just wondered why someone who says they've given up is still hanging around. Obviously you haven't given up. So, again, I haven't insulted anyone, contrary to you, and I'm the impolite one? Right. Plus, I'm not a fanboi and I didn't tell you to ♥♥♥♥ off. I. Was. Just. Wondering.
Aesthetic Demon Mar 15, 2013 @ 6:07am 
Originally posted by Unwerth:
Also it's 5 minutes standard. But that's just nitpicking, of course.

The only scenario where I can think of this happening is with a survey mission. Use drones and/or battle riders for these. Not only do they help surveying, making the mission take less turns, the riders are extremely useful when you have to find enemy fleets.

Oh, and if there's an enemy colony, always choose invade unless you really only want to poke at it or are confident you can beat it in one turn.

@Quartz: Excuse me, but I haven't used any insults or anything, I just wondered why someone who says they've given up is still hanging around. Obviously you haven't given up. So, again, I haven't insulted anyone, contrary to you, and I'm the impolite one? Right. Plus, I'm not a fanboi and I didn't tell you to ♥♥♥♥ off. I. Was. Just. Wondering.

An easier fix is simply to play SOTS-1, where your ability you design, build, and command your fleets isn't ruined by a bad UI, and poorly thought out, poorly implemented "Hella Kewl Featurez (tm)" like "Missionz (tm)" and "Fleetz (tm)" and "Admiralz (tm)", and where your ability to command your fleet in battle isn't compromised by the need to placate Multiplay Fanbois who suffer attention span failures if something takes more than a couple of mins before they can click the "Make Kewl Explosionz" button...
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Date Posted: Mar 12, 2013 @ 9:05am
Posts: 63