Shaftoe Jul 14 @ 2:25pm
SOTS2 Kills me
I want to like it. I really do. Its got so many potentially good ideas, but its so f'ing poorly implemented. Just venting. No hope for salvation I suspect.

Anyway I keep trying to play it and then I keep giving up because its just too poorly designed in so many key areas.
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Aranador Jul 14 @ 5:13pm 
You are right - it isnt going to get any more fixed. After just too many "I'll shame them into fixing it" type posts, the publishers walked away and the developers have gone back to less ambitious 'safe' titles.

It will be a while before someone risks trying something as awesome as SotS2 again. We can look forward to numerous titles that look good and play slick, but are shallow and have a few cute features but are ultimately just a tasty snack to be sampled while we get back to waiting for The One Game.
PegasusJF Jul 15 @ 9:12pm 
There is always distant worlds...
Aranador Jul 15 @ 11:43pm 
Naah - it doesnt appeal to me. If it could have the detail and intricacy of SotS2 ship design, combat, and tech system, maybe though.
Last edited by Aranador; Jul 15 @ 11:47pm
Shaftoe Jul 16 @ 5:54pm 
I like distant worlds alot, but...

I like the idea of SOTS2's fleet system. I like the attempt to implement a solar map, I like the tactical combat, and I like the variety in the races.

The implementation, though. Oh god the implementation.
Aranador Jul 17 @ 1:31am 
Yah that is it in a nutshell. SotS2 is a fantastic game inside a poor implementation. If you can get past that, you are rewardded with a solid grand strategy game. If you cant, you probably play Endless Space, a well implemented, slick game with the depth of a puddle. Why oh why cant there be both !
Fendelphi Jul 17 @ 12:28pm 
Originally posted by Aranador:
Yah that is it in a nutshell. SotS2 is a fantastic game inside a poor implementation. If you can get past that, you are rewardded with a solid grand strategy game. If you cant, you probably play Endless Space, a well implemented, slick game with the depth of a puddle. Why oh why cant there be both !
If only the modding tools were accessible, then people might be able to create and expand upon the core system(might even squash a few leaks and bugs).
If it had a stronger AI(for some reason, the AI of the first SotS was more competent), I would play this a lot more.

Love the game though. Love to customize stuff and see my designs blow up the enemy's stuff. Love the feeling of destruction when a full broadside/Alpha strike wrecks an enemy ship.

Also, love the diversity of each race(Especially Human Missile Fleets).
MAFiA™ Em Jul 17 @ 7:12pm 
The fact that broke it for me, and I suspect, for a lot of SOTS players, was the RADICAL shift away from the way things were handled in number one. And the UI. Oh gods. The UI. Blinky lights everywhere. The mission system is, just not workable, it ends up being WORSE then the micromanagement level you had in turn 500 back in SOTS, and thats from turn one in LOW.

Why oh why, could we not have gotten the new stuff, without butchering everything that worked in the original? Why could we not have gotten the good bits, without ruining the gameplay? :( I want to like LOW, I want to... But I cant.
Aranador Jul 17 @ 10:48pm 
Actually I like the new mission system - makes the strategic element a lot more interesting. No more "put every ship into one mega fleet and have it rampage endlessly across the galaxy" as your number one "strategy"

Horses for courses.
MAFiA™ Em Jul 18 @ 7:53am 
It would have been nice if it worked, if it actually put less strain on the player, but as it is, it uses its own Kafka-esque logic, mixed in with contraindicative information to create the impression of a well informed notion, when in truth it is naught but flashy lights and ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

Sort of like the modern news media, come to think of it.
duck_bird Jul 18 @ 11:18am 
It really is a shame how the game was handled. I still confidently state that the game is fantastic in multiplayer and well worth playing for the sheer depth of strategy against a human opponent.

For singleplayer though, no, I would argue the quirks of the game's interface are not worth putting up with to battle a braindead AI.
Shaftoe Jul 18 @ 6:47pm 
Sorry, disagree on the 'fantastic game inside a poor implementation part' - its not a solid grand strategy game, and thats what makes me so sad. Examples that get past the interface:

1) the trade system/piracy system is broken. Its not fun, its not well implemented, and its easily micro-management hell. You can build a naval base and 3 pc cruisers in every system, and pretty much eliminate pirates, but htat really wasn't the goal of the game right? They wanted to make it so you DIDNT put a naval base in each system. So the system sucks as implemented.

2) Compare the SOTS2 strategic layer to the SOTS strategic layer. Fleets are almost detected, even near the beginning of the game, 1 turn away from their destination. Thus, reaction fleets are pretty much useless. You need to defend everything with fleets in the front, or you need to go full offense. This really sucks for some races. Races like the hivers, which should be the kind of the rapid response, are massively gimped (this really sucks because I loved the hivers in SOTS)

3) Look at the diplomacy system. Is there a more borked diplomacy system in any strategy game you can think of? I can't come up with one. I'd rather they just ripped it out and make everything hostile from teh get go.. It would be easier to play that than with the completely irrational implementation in the game now.

4) Tech tree overload - it got TOO Big, to many weapons that redudnant or the reward/detriment isn't at all clear. SOTS, there was a pretty clear dillenation between kinetics and energy (although missiles were arguelably way to powerful in sots)

5) Tech system - i like the idea you cant research everything, but the implmentation is awful. There should be branches of the tree that don't work - e.g. if you cant get fusion blasters, then AM blasters are also difficult. It shouldnt be random tech to tech.

These are all implemenation bugs, not conceptual bugs. Its just not really well designed from a balance standpoint. I could get past hte UI, but i can't get past these. #1 #2 and #3 are the biggest issues IMO.



Originally posted by Aranador:
Yah that is it in a nutshell. SotS2 is a fantastic game inside a poor implementation. If you can get past that, you are rewardded with a solid grand strategy game. If you cant, you probably play Endless Space, a well implemented, slick game with the depth of a puddle. Why oh why cant there be both !
James 296 Jul 25 @ 11:55am 
a perfect anology for SoTS2: it looked great on paper but did not work so well in practice
screamingpalm Jul 25 @ 4:53pm 
Originally posted by James 296:
a perfect anology for SoTS2: it looked great on paper but did not work so well in practice

I don't know about that. Here I sit looking at my Steam library and think how good the game is lol. You know when you are bored of all your games and try to decide what you want to play... yeah.

Civ V: good game but extremely linear, jump through hoops to victory. Imbalanced Victory Conditions. Even being burned out logging so many hours in it, I might chose to go back to this one, mostly because nothing much else is out there worth playing (except SotS2).
Fallen Enchantress: Legendary Heroes- buggy as hell after all these years and patches. "Failed to Respond" sums it up. Makes SotS2 look perfectly optimized.
Age of Wonders 3: laughably easy AI, decent multiplayer, but stale meta and very one-dimensional.
Crusader Kings 2: just played a game and made a post looking for help where the game seemed like it was self-destructing. Completely illogical and inconsistent with the only pattern seeming to be "screw the player" however it can.

ETC.

By comparison, I love SotS2 (warts and all). :)
Sgt. Steiner Aug 2 @ 6:54pm 
I can't even figure out how to build my own colony ship. The manual says nothing about colonization modules. The UI is impossible. So it's quit now, or waste a lot of time I don't have. Too many better games out there.
Aranador Aug 3 @ 10:52pm 
Indeed - SotS2 consumes massive numbers of my spare time hours. If you dont have those, you are better off with a different game.
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