LordUther Aug 8 @ 5:40am
Paradox's position on Kerberos patching and fixing SOST2
"http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?775499-Dear-Paradox...

Hi all,

So here's the deal. We never (AFAIK) prohibit developers from patching/updating games they've made. If the Stalin vs Martian (yes we published that...) devs wanted to do a free update, patch, expansion, DLC whatever - we wouldn't stand in their way. If they want to spend their time and money supporting the game there's no reason for us to stop them.

The game was released in a crap state - since then patched/updated - big props to the developer for that. Today it's in a better/more playable state that we're calling "good enough" - which is supported by the player numbers - a lot of players are spending hundreds if not thousands of hours in the game.

Could the game be fixed up even more? Sure it's software after all.
Are we going to fund additional patches/updates? No - we're still far, far in the red with this project - we made a huge investment into the development and things didn't quite work out. So we're focusing on other things now.
Are we in any way standing in the way of the devs or the community patching/updating the game themselves? No.


/shams"


The simple fact is, that there is 0 money to be made by Kerberos for finishing and improving SOTS2 now. They have washed their hands of it and moved on to new games that they can make money on. So unless some savant modder comes along and takes it up. This is the broken version we are stuck with.
Showing 1-15 of 161 comments
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12_monkeys Aug 8 @ 5:44am 
So how about them mod tools? WHo actually owns the rights and why don't they release them? (this is from a non-modder/ techie so if its a technical answer, I'll just take your word for it :p)
LordUther Aug 8 @ 5:51am 
I just came across that a few weeks ago, so reposted it for others to see. Since Kerberos are the ones writing and patching the game. I would assume they have any mod tools there might be for it. And I don't see them ever releasing them.
Aranador Aug 8 @ 6:57am 
Basically - work in any form on SotS2 isnt going to earn any money for anyone. So there is a reluctance to do any work on it when they can instead earn money doing other things, and then be able to afford food and be able to pay the electricity bills.
12_monkeys Aug 8 @ 7:38am 
Fair enough, i just don't see where the cost is in releasing Mod tools... I'm sure there are some administrative costs etc but surely as a goodwill gesture for the state of the game, or even an artists pride in seeing his work completed by those who enjoy it would be enough of an incentive?

Maybe i'm just being all warm and fuzzy in the cut-throat world of business :-(
Resok Aug 8 @ 1:52pm 
The cost is in developer time (hourly wages paid). When Paradox has no plans of funding any ongoing developement work on SOTS2, it's kind of difficult for Kerberos to pay developers to fix the game. If they continued this approach they'd simply run out of money eventually and then go under - then no more SOTS.

That all being said - the way to see Kerberos continue patching SOTS2 is if their other projects are successful enough to fund work on additional patches for SOTS2. They have communicated this fact very clearly on their boards. Releasing additional modding tools is not a magic bullet and the cost of developing extensive modding tools is significant.
ForesterSOF Aug 9 @ 1:19am 
So hold on to tools and get no $$$ or sell tools in a pack and get something.
It will not be a silver bullet but it would be something.
Aranador Aug 9 @ 3:08am 
"get something" - probably a lot of complaints about how the tools have no usable documentation, horrible UI, and look like they were only intended for in-house use, along with being incomplete because the devs used liscenced professional development software packages along with their in house tools.
Last edited by Aranador; Aug 9 @ 3:09am
cG.vahnn Aug 12 @ 7:31pm 
Yeah, I was afraid of this. SotS Prime is one of my favorite games of all time, and hands-down my favorite 4x game. I spent months, years, drooling all over myself with giddy anticipation for the arrival of SotS2, and it was a complete flop.

Prime wasn't perfect at first, and took years to get where it is now, and I hoped the same would happen with SotS2. But it's not in the cards. SotS2 was a huge departure from the familiar systems of Prime, and I think it was more than the devs could handle. The slow progress with updates to a horrid launch didn't help them in the sales department at all. I bought SotS: The Pit in hopes of supporting the devs to continue polishing SotS2, and actually have really, really enjoyed my time with the game. But it wasn't enough.

It's been about 10 months since the last SotS2 patch, which is also the last time I tried the game. And it's still bad. Just bad. I wish it weren't so, but it is.

And now I'm sad for the rest of the night.
Kherny Aug 14 @ 8:38am 
Originally posted by cG|r.vahnn:
Yeah, I was afraid of this. SotS Prime is one of my favorite games of all time, and hands-down my favorite 4x game. I spent months, years, drooling all over myself with giddy anticipation for the arrival of SotS2, and it was a complete flop.

Prime wasn't perfect at first, and took years to get where it is now, and I hoped the same would happen with SotS2. But it's not in the cards. SotS2 was a huge departure from the familiar systems of Prime, and I think it was more than the devs could handle. The slow progress with updates to a horrid launch didn't help them in the sales department at all. I bought SotS: The Pit in hopes of supporting the devs to continue polishing SotS2, and actually have really, really enjoyed my time with the game. But it wasn't enough.

It's been about 10 months since the last SotS2 patch, which is also the last time I tried the game. And it's still bad. Just bad. I wish it weren't so, but it is.

And now I'm sad for the rest of the night.

With you 100%

Kherny.
Admiral Spoor Aug 16 @ 10:13am 
the game may be unfinshed, but by no means is it bad its playable , and very fun once you understand the new game mechanics, when u load it up and says its bad all i hear is *CRY* its not like prime its differnt , yes it is its better when u play and get down to it , either way the crazy hope is that at some point they come back to sots2 but im not holding my breath.
Epic The Incandescent Aug 16 @ 11:26pm 
What I dont understand is why kerberos is so stubborn about letting people fully mod the game. If they let us play with the develpors tools and editor we could make some awesome stuff. they could leave there base game of SOT2S BY KERBEROS blah blah, and the community gets its awesome new content to revive what is precived as a dead game. I really hope they arnt holding onto it as some for of "Protecting our IP from pirates" kind of mind set....
WOEaintME Aug 18 @ 2:11pm 
Originally posted by Epic The Incandescent:
Words n stuff...

While your idea may be logical, if my time on the Kerberos boards has taught me anything it's that the development team is not always logical. Rather they are more often condescending and counter productive.

I really don't understand why they don't come out and say "There will be no more support for SOTS2. But here are some tools as is. If you have any problems with them too bad because they are provided AS IS".

Having said all that, I find the game enjoyable in its current state but would nevertheless love to tinker and potentially improve my experience.
Sooth Sayer Aug 18 @ 9:37pm 
I can safly say this game is perhaps the most amazing space combat and customization game I have ever played and probably will ever play. I love it. I also hate how many bugs and unstable it gets in large scale games.

It has a steep learning curve and require more micromangaments than any other game I have played. There were many times when I got invaded in a system and had a planet wiped out because I forgot to deploy my defensive sattilaties there. I also got annoyed that I would send in a fleet and it would arrive on the battle map completly straightlined and uncoordinated because I forgot to establish a fleet formation before sending it on a mission.

This greivinces are wholly my fault and me forgetting how important and how customizable this game is. Many people grip about these things but I don't because I love the fact, I can lay out my battle lines and establish choke points and death zones by warp points and learn where to expect or adjust my defensive line when I see a invasion force coming.
I love the fact I can change, manuver and equip just about everything on everyship to suit my playstyle.
I also love the astsetics of this game, the background, and tactical battles immersion is at its worst impressive and at its best, unparralled in detail in both strategy and tactics.

It is as many stated not without its flaws, steep learning curve, bugs, instablity and lack of a decent diplomacy system. But once someone puts in the effort and learns the new mechanics and figures out the rough UI, it is quite enjoyable.

I give it, two stars.
Aranador Aug 18 @ 11:07pm 
I send an invasion fleet at one star and a scout fleet at the other !
Michael Aug 19 @ 6:15am 
Originally posted by Sooth Sayer:

Agree with you 100%.

This game is massive in depth if not scope. It is Endless Space plus Sins plus Homeworld.

3d starmap. Awesome strategic gameplay potential. Real tactical combat.
Suffers from poor interface and weak AI though at least stability is good after all the patching.

The games bult in fleet and system lists are unmanagable. Simpler tables or possibly floating lists of systems or fleets would work fantastic.

As it is its a micromanagement nightmare on larger maps to find planets where you havent built satellites or cutters or freighters or planets with low morale or good production modifiers.

On the tactical screen i would love a formation selector. A better pause ability so you can quickly reorganise combat groups and targets. And ong the tactical AI is awful if you ever resort to autoresolve combat. It doesnt keep ships together or make use of defensive assets properly but will happily send small grouos of ships off to be slaughtered in detail.

This was never a game for the faint hearted and i would happily recommend it to any space 4x fan wanting a real game and not the half ♥♥♥♥♥ shallow crap that was endless space. If only we could fix the AI.
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