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[DECISION MADE] My Refund Moral Dilemma
EDIT: I have made my decision to keep the game. Campo Santo had more balls than Donald Trump on steriods to make this game, and they deserve the money. Feel free to talk about games/this game/developers/morals/refunds or whatever, but i will not change my decision.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyFSbm79uBY

EDIT II:
A: Why is this thread still alive?
B: Oh my god, a forum post that isin't an absoloute warzone.

EDIT III: Nope, nevermind, it's a warzone.

EDIT IV: HEY MOM IM ON THE NEWS, AM I COOL YET
http://kotaku.com/firewatch-developer-offers-classy-response-to-steam-ref-1759195334

I'm writing this here for proof, since I'm going to be on the page on Kotaku / reddit answering questions in comments, or there.

EDIT V: Why is this still alive. WHY.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_F-2k_23yaA

EDIT VI: This is still ♥♥♥♥ing alive?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2k0SmqbBIpQ

So this game was 18$. I purchased it because i enjoyed games like this. And I enjoyed this game. Alot. Like, way more than a healthy amount. But it was 2-3 hours. I feel like there could of been more, and im thinking of refunding. But here is my problem: I loved this game. It was a unique game with awesome narration and storytelling. I like the developers. I mean seriously, have you seen how active they are on theese forums? What other dev is that connected to their community? I want to support the developers, but there was so much more i could of got with my 18$. Should i refund, or hold on to it?
Last edited by [RG] Undercover Fish; Feb 18 @ 2:17pm
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Showing 1-15 of 235 comments
2ndForm Feb 12 @ 9:01pm 
Ya know, going out to see a good movie, grabbing some dinner before hand, travel there and back, all comes in way over the entry price for this game.
I really dont get why people undervalue the experiences they have in game so much... if you liked it, and had a good experience, there is no real issue is there?
Originally posted by 2ndForm:
Ya know, going out to see a good movie, grabbing some dinner before hand, travel there and back, all comes in way over the entry price for this game.
I really dont get why people undervalue the experiences they have in game so much... if you liked it, and had a good experience, there is no real issue is there?

Well, thats the thing. I liked it. I LOVED it. But there were other things i could of spent 18 - 20$ on that would of provided alot more gameplay. I'm really torn here.

But maybe you are right.
2ndForm Feb 12 @ 9:07pm 
I went book shopping over the holidays, ended up picking up a couple of great books I've been wanting to read for a while. One I could only get in hardcover, and in the end it cost me around $40 for those two books.
For that $40 I could have bought everything ever written by Dan Brown, which would have been a lot more pages for my money.
But Dan Brown sucks, and the books I did get were worth it and I loved them.
Frosty Feb 12 @ 9:10pm 
Was kinda thinking the same.. Super shocked that it was over after like 3 hours. I expected it to take all sorts of crazy turns but instaed it was just like 1, 2, 3, done!
Well, let's consider this. You paid money for the game. You played the entire game. You ENJOYED the game. Now you are considering getting a refund because the game wasn't long enough and feel that the developers don't deserve that money now?

I paid $45 for a game when it came out. I beat it maybe 4-5 hours later. Was it fun? Yes.
Then there's a game I paid $15 for and got about 12 hours out of it. Was it fun? Yes,

Time does not equal money in gaming. If the game was fun and was enjoyable, it was well worth the money for that entertainment.

Anyone who plays through a game to the finish then goes and gets a refund is just a terrible person in my book. It basically cheats the developers out of the efforts that were put into the project.
Last edited by |MG| Choo Choo; Feb 12 @ 9:17pm
Originally posted by |MG| Choo Choo:
Now you are considering getting a refund because the game wasn't long enough and feel that the developers don't deserve that money now?

I specificially said that i like and support the developers, and they should have money. It's just that i could of used my 18$ to get something much longer. Where the hell did i say they don't deserve the money?
Last edited by [RG] Undercover Fish; Feb 12 @ 9:17pm
Originally posted by RG Undercover Fish:
Where the hell did i say they don't deserve the money?

Because you are having to ask whether or not to get a refund after completing the game that you enjoyed.
OpticBlu Feb 12 @ 9:20pm 
I tried to get a refund. They won't do it with over 2hrs of gameplay. What a waste of $18. The ending sucked. I'll never buy from this developer again
Originally posted by |MG| Choo Choo:
Originally posted by RG Undercover Fish:
Where the hell did i say they don't deserve the money?

Because you are having to ask whether or not to get a refund after completing the game that you enjoyed.

How in the name of god does that translate to "lel the devs dont deserve the moni xdddd" I'm saying i might want to refund it due to getting soemthing much longer with my 18$.
ThatJaneNg  [developer] Feb 12 @ 9:24pm 
hey there.
I thought about not responding, because normally ppl who want to refund are rude and unpleasant and I choose to not engage and dwell on it.

You seem nice and I figured what the heck, why not have a conversation about this, now that I have read it and it's right here in front of me.

So here is what I think. As the developer. Sorry if it's a bit stream of consciousness because I want this to come from the heart.

The 11 of us all took a lot of risk to make this, and sacrificed financially to give Firewatch a chance. We all could have had much better paying jobs elsewhere, but we all thought this game idea had potential to be something special. We seemed to like each other ok, so we all took a big leap of faith. Two years, we say. Let's give this a go, worst outcome is we all hate each other and go back to various money jobs, but we all could say, WE TRIED.

Two years +. We are all crammed in a tiny office, sharing one bathroom. It is not a glamorous thing, making an independent game. It is just a small room full of computers and a used microwave and $10 office chairs we luckily got from craigslist. Life happened during those two years: there were big breakups, profound illnesses of loved ones, a baby, etc. The dev team got to be like family, because that's how making an indie game is, you are all in it together, through thick and thin, supporting one another bc if you don't, there is no way in hell this game would get made, let alone any chance of it to be worth more than a bucket of ♥♥♥♥.

We were excited, but terrified. We felt free, but were constrained. I have been in this industry for 15 years almost, and this is the hardest I have ever worked. We all gave it our all, to make this weird thing, and we had no idea if it was any good to anybody else. All we could do, was try the damn hardest to make something we are honestly proud of. At the end, if this was a commercial failure, all we have got is what we have made. Nobody could take that away.

So yes, I am sad when people think this game is not worth the money we asked for (which we thought was a fair ask). It makes me feel like I failed them. It is ok if people don't like the game, but it affects me personally a lot, when people feel like it was not -worth- the time they engaged with it.

But do I blame you for wanting to get the most out of your $18? No. I don't know your financial circumstances. $18 might be a lot. Or even it isn't a lot, why shouldnt' you try to get the most out of it? That's a fair desire. That's why we asked for $18 too, because money is something we could all use more of.

So I supopse in conclusion, if you do refund, I am not upset. It's on me to learn not to care too much. All I ask is that maybe sometime in the future, when the game goes on mega dirt cheap sale, you could gift tthe experience to someone else you think will enjoy it like you did.

Sincerely,
Jane






<3 Jane.
And what an incredibly cool insight from this developer. I've not play this game yet, and unfortunately, it's not my style. I like to pop onto various message boards to hear what others have to say about a game, even if i don't plan on buying.

I think that this is one of those things that although you paid for it, and beat it in a rather abrupt amount of time, i feel the coin would be alot different had you NOT enjoyed this game and wanted a refund. As gamers, we all feel somewhat betrayed, or jaded when a game releases and it takes you a few hours to finish. Especially when we enjoyed it. The problem is we're left unsatisfied that it didn't last longer. Alas, we come here. Where you can clearly tell the developer put blood, sweat, and tears into this game. The least you could do is not action a refund. Because you're not paying for JUST the game which seems to be the running concept of your post, but it's also feeding the developers as well. Remember, you're "paying" for the game, but the money doesn't go towards the game, it goes to the developers and various networks depending on the developer.

In this case, your $18 is going to the developers, the small group they are. So you enjoyed their game. You leave it at that. It's 100% no different than paying for popcorn, drink, and movie for yourself which costs more than the game, and the movie lasts an even shorter amount of time. Now think to yourself how many times you've wanted your money back after seeing a ~1h30m movie you enjoyed. Probably never. Same should go for this as well. It'll just stay on your "Purchased Games" as a trophy of a game you enjoyed and can replay whenever you'd like for nostalgia purposes.

TL;DR, It's the developers getting your $18, not the game itself.
Devs should care about their projects, and this is one of them. This is a unique game that I look forward to playing in the next week or two. Do you guys plan to do any kind of DLC for it to continue things?
I haven't played this yet but would like to suggest that just because a game is longer doesn't mean it's a better use of your money. I've gotten more out of a 3 hour emotional burn of a game than a 30+ hour thing that at times can be a slog. If you loved the game you loved the game and I feel you should focus on that and value the feelings it gave you. If I buy a 150-200 page novel/la for $12, I don't ask for a refund when I'm done just because I could've bought Infinite Jest for the same, especially if I loved it. Concision is an art and it sounds like the developers were able to pack a lot of heart into this little game.
Last edited by jet fuel can't melt real dreams; Feb 12 @ 9:55pm
There is no debate: if you really enjoyed it it was worth the money.
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