[RESOLVED] Nothing to see here...

[Mashsmouth]

I'm a noob at this game, but one thing I definetly noticed off the bat is how unbalanced Japan is against the US. I get this is supposed to be a historical game, and I'm all for that, but that's exactly what this is supposed to be: a game, not a full sim. Of course the Japanese have grenades that an be planted in the ground, but that's useless when attacking and because of how big the maps are. The Banzai charge is useless as well, mainly because of how close you have to be for the effects to even work (about 2 and a half meters). Being that close together is an extremely easy target for insta-killing flamethrowers and the M1 Spray Gun. Even the upgrades hardly do anything. I checked the weapons guide and even upgrades are ramped up for the US. The BAR gets a bipod after level 25 (or 50?) whilst the Type 100 just nerfed fire rate and a bad iron sights. Almost the same thing for the Arisaka. It gets practically no upgrades for ROF, accuracy, or anything at all. A level 50 type 38 still stays it same crappy way in comparison to a level 0 M1 Spray Gun.

Am I right or am I just that horrible at this game? I've played about 5 Rising Sun campaigns (2 of which too painful to finish), and the ones I got through were all defeats, and not just because the TLs and SLs have no clue what to do. I was actually surprised when we won a battle. It was only a defense battle on Peleliu (the most open and flat map I've ever seen) and we only won with about 20 reinforcements left on the last point. I'm sure there are many people that have actually had a good game as the Japanese, but so far in my 15 hours (15 hours?! Wow!!! I'm a veteran by now!!!) I've never seen a crushing victory for the Japanese.

[-OrLoK- Слава Україн]

Hello there

My favourite side in RS is the Japanese.

They have a lot of advantages, just they have to be used in a more tactical way.

Knee mortars for eg, they can be used hand held or planted and are deadly.

The greande "mines" are superb as most US never think to look for them and although the maps are large most people follow a defined route. Its knowing where to plant them.

An organised Banzai charge (or even a solo) is very effective.

Its about using what you have in the way its intended.

The US is a very traditional FPS side in that aspect.

The japanese have power, one just has to know how to weild it.

Rgds

LoK

[wWaxen]

Bottom line, when it's not a free-weekend, the Japanese win close enough to half the games. Having semi-autos over bolt-actions sounds huge but in practice it rarely comes into play. Banzai charges are super effective when done intelligently, and there are a lot of other things that are intended to balance teams, like map design.

[Ace42]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Who Goes Thar:

I'm a noob at this game, but one thing I definetly noticed off the bat is how unbalanced Japan is against the US.

You're wrong; ♥♥♥♥ have their own unique playstyle, and when they lose it's generally down to bad players thinking that a bolt-action means "camp miles back and wait for the enemy to trip over you".

Grenade traps are NOT useless; familiarity with the map will help you put them in key locations and all-but guarantee you some kills. Once you have two out, you can easily go to an ammo-dump and have yourself a spare for throwing and a spare for suicide-charging.

Knee-mortars will take out a flamer before he gets within 100m of a ♥♥♥.

Upgrades are a mixed bag, but Bi-Pods for BAR are considered by some to be a bit of a down-grade due to the hassle it causes with deployment. The Arisaka 99 monopod is pretty handy by comparison. With the type-100 you gain in stability and thus reliability what you lose in raw ROF. The ♥♥♥ LMGs are arguably superior to the US 1919 in every respect other than clip-size, btw.

Banzai charges are very effective; and failure to capitalise on them is usually the thing that costs the Japanese ground, and ultimately victories. It doubles ♥♥♥ mobility, and makes them truly intimidating on the offensive.

US have done particularly well on free-weekend for a number of reasons:
1. The new Campaign Mode swaps around the attackers and defenders, which means some core map design issues are confused for old and new players alike.
2. New players always camp far back as ♥♥♥ riflemen and pretend they're snipers; when really they're front-line troops who should be banzaiing and planting grenade traps, and suiciding charging with grenades to take out entire enemy squads.
3. The US kit is more forgiving of bad players; and the best tactics available to the ♥♥♥♥ are crippled by bad players messing stuff up for their team.
4. The veteran players have been stacking teams like buggery in order to farm free weapon-levels off of the new players, and that typically means all going US to avoid the bads playing ♥♥♥♥ wrong and in order to get the upgrades on the US guns.

All of these factors will ease off as time goes on. ♥♥♥♥ are hell-a-fun to play, especially on the offensive, which is probably why I've maxed out the level on all of the ♥♥♥ guns except the pistol, katana, and the new sniper (all of which are getting pretty close, BTW); and I've only maxed out the level on the Scoped Springfield for the US so far.

[maffiaw_]

It's not unbalanced. Played properly and aggressively the Japanese are difficult to deal with.
Strengths - knee mortars (takes some skill), booby traps, banzai

[Yggdrasil]

Win or lose, I always play the Japanese. Just as in RO2, good teamwork with an effective commander and squad leaders carries the day on any map. Conversely, when it's every man for himself up against an organized opponent, the organized opponent wins, hands down.

[Алексей]

For Japan side always !

[Mashsmouth]

I love the Japanese side as well, but I see what you guys are saying. I guess once everybody gets the hang of the game I'll be seeing some Japanese victories, but I still think the Banzai radius should be larger and the flamethrower nerfed in range (it DOES insta kill...).

Opprinnelig skrevet av rolfskalder:

Win or lose, I always play the Japanese. Just as in RO2, good teamwork with an effective commander and squad leaders carries the day on any map. Conversely, when it's every man for himself up against an organized opponent, the organized opponent wins, hands down.

I try to play with teamwork too, most of the people in the games I'm in just started the game and have no clue what to do when they're the SL/TL, so I've tried both. Problem is, very few people even listen to what I ask them, mainly because they're insubordinate to their SLs and because most of the SLs don't use smoke or know what the binoculars are for.

Opprinnelig skrevet av maffiaw_:

It's not unbalanced. Played properly and aggressively the Japanese are difficult to deal with.
Strengths - knee mortars (takes some skill), booby traps, banzai

That's exactly why it's unbalanced, for now at least. If you have noob team vs. noob team in this game the US team will almost definetly win. Like I said above though, it'll probably stop being that way once people get to now the game.

I've never seen a mass banzai charge towards the enemy yet. A few of us banzai at the spawn but then stop at the front line. Unless they...

Opprinnelig skrevet av Ace42:

camp miles back and wait for the enemy to trip over you

[Skooma Addict]

in campaign now the japanese can almost never win once the americans get any advantage because of the ability for the attacking team to choose map

[droggen]

I like playing as japan if anything I think their MG are way over the top they turn into snipers at 50. Banzai charges do wonders with good team work smoke,artillery support my katana is lvl 50 most people I got in a banzai charge with me was 17 people on guadal. My point being japan is a great team if you have people who support each other this is often a throw of the dice but a mic does help a team work together.

[Freem0n]

It isn't just new players, veterans noticed it too. When they rebalanced the maps, they did some bizarre things.

The maps that wern't balanced were Hanto, Saipan, and to a lesser degree, peleilu.

They got hanto right (brought reinforcements down to 480 for axis, reduced time to 20 minutes), ignored the massive allied advantage on Saipan, and for some bizarre reason, gave the attackers less reinforcements than the defenders on gaudalcanal.

[Ace42]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Who Goes Thar:

That's exactly why it's unbalanced, for now at least. If you have noob team vs. noob team in this game the US team will almost definetly win.

It's not really about being a "noob team"; it's about using some common sense (or just listening to veteran players) and playing to J strengths. If Js fail to lay traps, refuse to banzai, and just hide on the back lines then they deserve to lose.

It's not that J kit requires an inordinate amount of skill or teamwork to use; it just requires people to *actually use it*.

If you don't banzai, don't lay grenade traps, don't suicide-charge the enemy with grenades, and don't make good use of knee-mortars; of course your team is going to get out-gunned.

I've seen as many good players fail to carry US and have humiliating defeats as I have seen fail to carry Japan. If your team is bad, you're going to lose, and it's going to be frustrating for the players who are trying to play strategically for the win rather than just lone-wolfing.

[Mashsmouth]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Ace42:

If Js fail to lay traps, refuse to banzai, and just hide on the back lines then they deserve to lose.

That's why it's unbalanced; for now. Few noobs ever play strategically and use the grenade traps and banzai effectively. I've seen some noobs use knee mortars better than some veterans, but it's a small number of them. I've never been able to suicide grenade though, it seems pointless when I can just shoot their face; because most of the time the US team is all spread out into a long line, able to kill anyone outside of cover. We can do the same of course, but it make suicide grenading not profitable at all (1 kill on average vs. 15 seconds to respawn + possibility of getting shot before you reach the enemy).

[Ace42]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Who Goes Thar:

That's why it's unbalanced; for now. Few noobs ever play strategically and use the grenade traps and banzai effectively.

That's like saying Hunters are OP in WoW because if a Rogue hangs back and tries to throw knives or shoot a bow at them, he'll lose.

If noobs are playing J wrongly, it is down to them; not game balance. I've been on plenty of servers since free week where the noobs on J have been told repeatedly, in voice and text chat, every 30 seconds what they should be doing, and they just ignore the advice and persist in their noobery. That's not J being hard to play, that's players refusing to play as J and no amount of "balancing" will change that. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

I've seen some noobs use knee mortars better than some veterans, but it's a small number of them.

Proves my point, then; the kit isn't UP, or hard to use, it's just that the majority of noobs simply aren't doing it.

I've never been able to suicide grenade though, it seems pointless when I can just shoot their face;

It's like a Banzai with an AOE on the end, and IIRC you don't lose a ticket at the end of it, whereas you will if you get shot whilst trying to bayonet people.
The technique is:
1. Equip grenade (3 key by default).
2. Hold primary fire to wind it up (left click by default)
3. Sprint towards the target, thereby going into banzai (shift+w by default).
4. About 20m from the target click melee to start cooking the grenade.
5. Either toss it at the last minute if you've got the element of surprise,a clear target, and think you can survive;
or hold onto it and stay in the optimum position to frag a squad when it finally goes off.

I'm pretty good, and I can't usually survive a squad firing Thompsons and Garands at me after I pop one of them in the head and thus give myself away. However, I do frequently get 5 men squad wipes with a suicide nade charge.

Now that primed grenades still go off after death, it's even more lethal, and even easier to toss grenades and try to survive for a second throw.

because most of the time the US team is all spread out into a long line, able to kill anyone outside of cover. We can do the same of course, but it make suicide grenading not profitable at all (1 kill on average vs. 15 seconds to respawn + possibility of getting shot before you reach the enemy).

If the US team are spread out, they're easy to banzai with a bayonet instead. Grenade charging is great for clearing out bunkers and other choke-points though. And the damage reduction gifted by Banzai allows you to survive ridiculous amounts of damage if you're not playing stupid and if your team is actually doing their job. All those rounds coming at you are rounds not coming at your team-mates, giving them an opportunity to get a bead on all those targets whose muzzle flashes are lighting up like christmas trees.

Also, 15 second respawn and a kill is preferable to a riflemen spending 3 whole minutes hiding in the bushes at the rear-flank of a CP failing to do anything at all. Dying is a party of the game, all those hundred tickets in your team's pocket aren't worth anything if you lose a match due to lock-down or not reaching the last objective in time.

Next time you lose a rounddue to the clock running out, hit T key to see the tactical view and have a look at the ticket count. Every ticket above 0 is a ticket wasted – with the sole exception of those rare tie-breaks where tickets (rather than combined team-points, which are massively inflated by just spawning on a SL or blowing up barbed wire with satchels, or being on a CP when it turns, etc etc) are the deciding factor.

[still in a dream]

You just have to be good at the game to play as japanese :) americans is like the tutorial mode

[Mashsmouth]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Ace42:

Opprinnelig skrevet av Who Goes Thar:

That's why it's unbalanced; for now. Few noobs ever play strategically and use the grenade traps and banzai effectively.

That's like saying Hunters are OP in WoW because if a Rogue hangs back and tries to throw knives or shoot a bow at them, he'll lose.

If noobs are playing J wrongly, it is down to them; not game balance. I've been on plenty of servers since free week where the noobs on J have been told repeatedly, in voice and text chat, every 30 seconds what they should be doing, and they just ignore the advice and persist in their noobery. That's not J being hard to play, that's players refusing to play as J and no amount of "balancing" will change that. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

I've seen some noobs use knee mortars better than some veterans, but it's a small number of them.

Proves my point, then; the kit isn't UP, or hard to use, it's just that the majority of noobs simply aren't doing it.

I've never been able to suicide grenade though, it seems pointless when I can just shoot their face;

It's like a Banzai with an AOE on the end, and IIRC you don't lose a ticket at the end of it, whereas you will if you get shot whilst trying to bayonet people.
The technique is:
1. Equip grenade (3 key by default).
2. Hold primary fire to wind it up (left click by default)
3. Sprint towards the target, thereby going into banzai (shift+w by default).
4. About 20m from the target click melee to start cooking the grenade.
5. Either toss it at the last minute if you've got the element of surprise,a clear target, and think you can survive;
or hold onto it and stay in the optimum position to frag a squad when it finally goes off.

I'm pretty good, and I can't usually survive a squad firing Thompsons and Garands at me after I pop one of them in the head and thus give myself away. However, I do frequently get 5 men squad wipes with a suicide nade charge.

Now that primed grenades still go off after death, it's even more lethal, and even easier to toss grenades and try to survive for a second throw.

because most of the time the US team is all spread out into a long line, able to kill anyone outside of cover. We can do the same of course, but it make suicide grenading not profitable at all (1 kill on average vs. 15 seconds to respawn + possibility of getting shot before you reach the enemy).

If the US team are spread out, they're easy to banzai with a bayonet instead. Grenade charging is great for clearing out bunkers and other choke-points though. And the damage reduction gifted by Banzai allows you to survive ridiculous amounts of damage if you're not playing stupid and if your team is actually doing their job. All those rounds coming at you are rounds not coming at your team-mates, giving them an opportunity to get a bead on all those targets whose muzzle flashes are lighting up like christmas trees.

Also, 15 second respawn and a kill is preferable to a riflemen spending 3 whole minutes hiding in the bushes at the rear-flank of a CP failing to do anything at all. Dying is a party of the game, all those hundred tickets in your team's pocket aren't worth anything if you lose a match due to lock-down or not reaching the last objective in time.

Next time you lose a rounddue to the clock running out, hit T key to see the tactical view and have a look at the ticket count. Every ticket above 0 is a ticket wasted – with the sole exception of those rare tie-breaks where tickets (rather than combined team-points, which are massively inflated by just spawning on a SL or blowing up barbed wire with satchels, or being on a CP when it turns, etc etc) are the deciding factor.

Thanks for your wisdom. I never would've known anything like that :) I've always thought holding FMB cooked the grenade...