Emirate Mar 11 @ 11:05am
so which clan actully took over japan?
?
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Ragsash Mar 11 @ 11:35am 
Tokugawa I think. they mention it in the fall of the samurai.
That I find quite funny as in my opinion is the worst clan in the game.
Last edited by Ragsash; Mar 11 @ 11:36am
<VMS>Tocki Mar 11 @ 11:51am 
no its VMS:)
Ebola-Chan Mar 11 @ 12:03pm 
So here is what happened. Oda Nobunaga, with Tokugawa Ieyasu and Toyotomi Hideyoshi, started the unification of Japan. Oda did 80% of the work, but was killed during a betrayal while he was prepping his campaign into Mori lands. After his death, Toyotomi Hideyoshi took over where Oda left off. Hideyoshi also invaded China and Korea and ultimately failed and passed away due to age in 1598. After his death Tokugawa took control and wrapped up the entire "age of war" at the Battle of Sekigahara in 1600.

There is a Japanese adage to these "Big Three" as they're called.

Oda built the foundation
Toyotomi built the house
Tokugawa lived in the house

Basically saying that Oda did most of the work, Toyotomi did the finishing touches, and then Tokugawa merely lived off the spoils of the other two's work. Tokugawa is normally looked upon unfavorably when capared to the other two since he really didn't do much.
[B'oh] ShadowFighter88 Mar 11 @ 1:59pm 
Incidentally; the statue that appears in the Tokugawa's campaign victory cutscene is a real statue. Can't remember where in Japan it was, though. I think it was a park in Tokyo. Would make more sense than Kyoto - Ieyasu moved the nation's capital to a small fishing village called Edo after he became Shogun. Yes, that's the same Edo that's expanded over the last four hundred years to become Tokyo.
rory.b.p Mar 11 @ 2:32pm 
Originally posted by Oh no, the Tsun:
So here is what happened. Oda Nobunaga, with Tokugawa Ieyasu and Toyotomi Hideyoshi, started the unification of Japan. Oda did 80% of the work, but was killed during a betrayal while he was prepping his campaign into Mori lands. After his death, Toyotomi Hideyoshi took over where Oda left off. Hideyoshi also invaded China and Korea and ultimately failed and passed away due to age in 1598. After his death Tokugawa took control and wrapped up the entire "age of war" at the Battle of Sekigahara in 1600.

There is a Japanese adage to these "Big Three" as they're called.

Oda built the foundation
Toyotomi built the house
Tokugawa lived in the house

Basically saying that Oda did most of the work, Toyotomi did the finishing touches, and then Tokugawa merely lived off the spoils of the other two's work. Tokugawa is normally looked upon unfavorably when capared to the other two since he really didn't do much.

Pretty much bang on, but as a side note Akechi Mitsuhide who was the one that betrayed Oda Nobunaga was also Shogun for a grand total of 13 days before he was defeated by Hideyoshi Toyotomi.
Certainly Oda Nobunaga and to some extent Hideyoshi were the ones with the vision and both were certainly incredibly skilled tactiticians.
As a tactician Tokugawa Ieyasu had moments of brilliance but honestly if you were to average it he was pretty bad certainly in comparison to the other two however he was very good at governing his territory, building strong economies and notably quelling internal unrest.
When Hideyoshi Toyotomi was shogun he made an interesting offer to Tokugawa Ieyasu, he offered him 8 provinces (basically the kanto region) that were formerly of the Hojo clan in return for Ieyasu's 5 provinces including his home province of Mikawa.
Ieyasu accepted and managed to not only quell disgruntled former Hojo samurai but he also managed to build up the infrastructer dramatically so he certainly wasn't as impotent a ruler as many believed him to be.
I think overall he may have been the boring one and not the best strategist but he definetly brought something to the table and without him post Hideyoshi it may have just gone to ♥♥♥♥ again.
[B'oh] ShadowFighter88 Mar 11 @ 9:37pm 
Either way, it certainly seems like he had all the qualities of a peace-time ruler and managed to get himself into a position to be a peace-time ruler.
Sohei Mar 11 @ 10:44pm 
Yeah the Tokugawa line used many ways to maintain control and this lead to a very long period of peace for the most part. However, it did also eventually set up the country for some major weakness and instability so this control was ultimately unsustainable.
Lbrand Mar 12 @ 12:33pm 
Akechi Mitsuhide betrayed Oda, but wasnt the one to kill him I heard, as a side node. After the death of Hideyoshi Toyotomi, his retainers split up in 2 major fractions, the Easter and Western Army's. The Tokugawa leaded the Eastern army with the Date at his side. Mitsunari Ishida leaded the Western with the former Uesugi and Takeda at his side. Ieyasu came on top that fight 1600 at Segihara
[B'oh] ShadowFighter88 Mar 12 @ 9:15pm 
Originally posted by Lbrand:
Akechi Mitsuhide betrayed Oda, but wasnt the one to kill him I heard, as a side node.
Think I read somewhere that Mitsuhide forced Nobunaga to commit sepukku, along with several of Nobunaga's other retainers, like Ranmaru.
rosarioluigi Mar 13 @ 7:36am 
Originally posted by B'oh | ShadowFighter88:
Originally posted by Lbrand:
Akechi Mitsuhide betrayed Oda, but wasnt the one to kill him I heard, as a side node.
Think I read somewhere that Mitsuhide forced Nobunaga to commit sepukku, along with several of Nobunaga's other retainers, like Ranmaru.

They committed seppuku within the burning temple. Mitsuhide's troops had it surrounded but Oda and his retainers never came out. That is kinda like forcing him to do it. :)

No one mentioned Hideyori's attempt to reclaim his father's power and subsequent fall at Osaka? Technically the siege of Osaka in 1616 is the last gasp of the Sengoku period but Sekigahara is unarguably the penultimate engagement of the era.
cSg|mc-Hotsauce Mar 13 @ 3:34pm 
ive always heard the term "Nobunaga Suicide" as the other way of committing Seppuku.

hmmm...

nice read you all!

Rodbrun . Mar 13 @ 3:45pm 
I guess was Tokugawa,in the 47 ronnis movie they show a Tokugawa Shogun ^^
ANKH Mar 13 @ 6:22pm 
The Satsuma and Choshu in FOTS
sarah Mar 13 @ 6:24pm 
The Tokugawa shogunate lasted for around 250 years. Tokugawa Yoshinobu was the last.
dylanhack Mar 14 @ 9:38pm 
In the Genpei War, it was the Minamoto clan who won the war, though it began the rule of the Kamakura Shogunate. Otherwise the Ashigaka Shogunate sometime later.
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Date Posted: Mar 11 @ 11:05am
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