Help playing as a shogun 2 army vs a FOTS army.

[Ak_Th3_Big_E]

Hi Steam community, I have a problem in which, I am freaking sick of.

So I bought Shogun 2 (all dlc) and FOTS because I had seen the youtubes videos on it and, to be frank, looked freaking legit. Also what was nice, my friends had it. Now this is my first time EVER playing the total war series, and other games that include tatics and quick thinking. My friend, used to Empire Total War, plays as a FOTS army, which mostly consists of Line infantry, elite infantry, and some gun calvary. As myself, I play with the original Shogun 2 armies.

Let me tell you, the battles have been ugly.

If anyone can help me with tips to defeat my friend in awesome style, please help me.

Things that my friend does:

-He sets up his armies quick and not far from his spawn.

-Always on the defensive

-Never moves unless he is chasing after fleeing units (unless if he knows its a trap).

-Skrimishes sharpshooters and revolver calvary/carbine calvary and pulls out to his lines once he inflicts enough damage on my men.

-Hardly uses arty

-Completey owns me (have I said that before?)

-Uses open cover for his advantages

Thank you for any tips you can give me. :)

[Aztekka223]

First of All (This might take awhile but) Spam archer becouse they have more range

1. Use archers becouse they dont need line of sight- Yes All of his gunmen need Line of sight
So get in a ditch or the bottom of a small (very) hill so he cannot fire upon you
2. Flank him and distrackhim
3. Use Cannons or any Ninjas to slow him down
4.Max out your Verterns for you archers so they can be a killing machine

[Tocki]

Oprindeligt skrevet af PROGAMER963™:

First of All (This might take awhile but) Spam archer becouse they have more range

1. Use archers becouse they dont need line of sight- Yes All of his gunmen need Line of sight
So get in a ditch or the bottom of a small (very) hill so he cannot fire upon you
2. Flank him and distrackhim
3. Use Cannons or any Ninjas to slow him down
4.Max out your Verterns for you archers so they can be a killing machine

1. Spam archers??? if the lineinfantry is moving, you hit nothing of them, and one volley of the unit----> half bowmen unit dead. Where the ♥♥♥♥ do you all get those tactics???? If you want to play archers, Then just one lvl5 Dayku or lvl5 Bowmonk. An Eliteinfantry lvl5 has 150 Range, the same range as your unskilled archers.
2. is ok+
3. Cannons and Ninjas? european canon is one of the useless unit against everything. Ninjas are just about 45 men. If he see them, he will send a gun cav and dead.
4. As i said, just Dayku or Bowmonk lvl5 with 200 Range. Focus on a standing lineinfantry and you will kill many units.


To OP: Dont be pissed if you lose against Fots. Last thread i had the same conversation and i said that as a trad player you have many handicaps against Fots player. Every lineinfantry has 125 Range, About 150 men. Cav units have strong Meele stats, those yari ki are way more cost effective than a yari cav. Those Shogitais are expensive, but 150 men and kills your infantry easily. Gun cav is a very strong skirmish unit, no chances with mounted gunners or donderbuss, maybe Bowcav, but you must be very careful, you have just 25 more Range (Bowcav vanilla 150 Range- Gun cav vanilla 125Range).

I prefer using a huge Rush with about 4-5 Sword- or Nag attentands (Nag attentands protect your No dachis for cav charges, but If you get a Sword attentand into Line infantry, they kill much more than Naginatas) as meatshield, behind them about 4-6 Vanilla No dachis. Heavy Cav combination to kill his Cavalry and gun cav. I think about 3 light cav vanilla, 3 Yari cav lvl2 and a firecav or yari cav lvl6 with just attack and defend skills(Yari cav is one of thefastest cav unit, so you shouldnt have any problems to chase the enemy cav down). It depends on how many kokus you still have, but the stronger your cav is, the better you can flank him.

Take Cheap units, so he cant find a good target to focus his arty on it. Take care about your heavy cav, they die rly fast if he shoots with his arty on it. spread those units, so you have just about 2 lines, its harder to aim for him.

Make about 2 or 3 groups with Sword- or Nag attentands on the Front and behind them your unskilled no dachis. Sword- or Nag attentands eats the volleys and if your No dachis get into their Lineinfantry, they will massacre them. And if your No dachis are wavering, Banzai and they fight till the last man.
Put your Cavalry on both flanks, But stay with your cav units near your Infantry, to protect them for enemy cav charges. Light Cav is your meatshield.
Use all the space you get in this map, give him no chances to flank you, so spread your units. Give him no chances to react, try to rush as fast as possible, outmicro him.

But ask him to put on key buildings, because when he camps on his spawn or a hill all the time, there is no fun. And big unit size is very important. On medium or small you have no chances, because he kills your men way faster with his lineinfantry.
But you still can lose a game. In my opinion If your enemy knows how to deal with trad players, you have no chances.

[Destin Faroda]

Who would have guessed that 16th century units don't stand a chance against 19th century line infantry with modern rifles? Don't fight battles you can't win.
You could try bombarding him with rocket ashigarus. I don't know how they fare in vanilla Shogun II though, as I never play without my realims mod. Just give it a try.
Too bad CA didn't care about portraying cavalry as realistically as the guys from Takeda 3. Japanese cavalry was primarily used for scouting and surprise attacks, not frontal charge attacks as they only had access to ponies. Cavalry should be able to use guerilla depoyment. This way, you could hide them in a forest and flank him.
Another problem is the fact that CA doesn't care about realistic projectiles. Most FotS projectiles have a spread value of 0 -> they behave like modern sharpshooter rifles. This is extremely unfair.

[Ak_Th3_Big_E]

Thanks so far guys. I have used the meatshield ideas before, but usually my sword attendents get crushed (like they are supposed to) not even close to his lines, leaving my actual attack force in a bloodbath (At the time I only had Katana Samurai as my main attack force).

Usually my lines go like this.

[sword attendents front and in a line [not in loose form], usually 1 unit of them.]
[1 unit of katana samurai in the middle]
[another unit of katana bunched together]
[maybe a foot samurai]
[type of spear in case of sabre calvary.]
I would have two groups of this to attack his lines.
With my other funds available, I would get calvary.
Anything wrong with this?


I do realize that I am fighting a losing battle, but I would like to stay to original shogun the best I can.

[Tocki]

No you need no dachis. Without banzai they could rout before you get in Meele. Also no dachis become faster if you activate banzai, so it's easier to chase them down.
So u create an easy formation how you take them. You bring 6 sword attentands + 6 no dachis

Sword attentand= S
No dachis = N
S S___S S___S S
N N___N N___N N
you create 3 groups, in each group are 2 sword attentands + 2 no dachis in the formation I already showed.
Then immediately attack. In those groups you can react way better, without losing the entire formation. Cav units I would use an unlocked group, you have to press ctrl+G to create this group.
But which unit size are you playing?

[Ak_Th3_Big_E]

With medium funds, I think we play with large.

[Tocki]

Ok medium funds you play with just about 3-4 no dachis and sword attendants:)

[Ak_Th3_Big_E]

Thanks Tocki. I just played with the AI with the tactics you have suggested.. The battle was still pretty costly, but I won.

[Onion on point]

Hum...sorry for the bad english....but if he is the defensive type....you need stay calm and wait more than he....stay defensive and try find some high ground or forest to hide your units....make sure he get close and charge....dont need to send a bait he will come...

[Powellinho.72]

Oprindeligt skrevet af <VMS>Tocki:

Ok medium funds you play with just about 3-4 no dachis and sword attendants:)

hey did the cure accept your invite afterwards or did he keep it on private lol the other thread got locked

[Tocki]

Oprindeligt skrevet af celtic warrior:

Oprindeligt skrevet af <VMS>Tocki:

Ok medium funds you play with just about 3-4 no dachis and sword attendants:)

hey did the cure accept your invite afterwards or did he keep it on private lol the other thread got locked

I sent him3-4 invites, he didnt accept one of it. It seems he got scared:) maybe he got to know that im not such a noob, that he believed in the beginning.

[Powellinho.72]

Oprindeligt skrevet af <VMS>Tocki:

Oprindeligt skrevet af celtic warrior:

hey did the cure accept your invite afterwards or did he keep it on private lol the other thread got locked

I sent him3-4 invites, he didnt accept one of it. It seems he got scared:) maybe he got to know that im not such a noob, that he believed in the beginning.

lmao dude he been trolling the rome 2 forum for months , anybody has negative things to say about it and he attacks u lol he thinks its the best total war game , but yeah looks like he did run away bless him .

[Tocki]

:D i saw it, he just said like: you must be new in Total War,....
What a troll, he should stand ones ground when he talks so much crap...

[Otomo Matchlock Ashigaru]

I am that freind, just for all your information, and this is flippin' hilarious.

[Otomo Matchlock Ashigaru]

I also always switch off key buildings because I don't wanna go around and capture them all, and then winning a capture victory (which I do versus my OTHER freinds because I'm just that kind of guy)