papagoose Mar 20, 2013 @ 6:40am
Renaissance difficulty.
So the first map of the Empire campaign after the tutorial map. Turn 8 or 9 and an enemy army of Elves sweeps in from off screen and obliterates my army. Healer gone in first salvo of arrows and magic, my team hardly get a hit in etc etc. They seem to be mostly second level and with more army pieces than I have. Is this how it is all the way through?

From playing the old Disciples 2 games I remember that you usually had a bottleneck position between you and the moving enemy guarded by a high level static. This gave you the time to build up your forces a bit.
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Psychos Mar 22, 2013 @ 4:27pm 
Yes, the off screen attacks happen throughout the game and they seem to happen on a regular basis. As a rule of thumb tend to expect an off screen attack after every like.. 8 - 10 turns or so. I'm not saying this will always be the case, just a tactic I've been sticking by. I'm sure someone more informed about the game has better info on them.

That said, I've already completed the Empire campaign on Normal mode (a few months ago) and I'm currently working on the Legions campaign (on Hard). The first couple of maps for the Empire at least will be the most difficult simply because your units and hero are not levelled, and the low leadeship stat means you can get wrecked in a bad fight, once your hero starts to level and your leadership is higher the off screen attacks don't really pose that much of a problem really.

So the few suggestions I guess are,
1: get the leadership tiles a.s.a.p. and fill the extra party slots.

2: the only party that matters is the heros party. Hit most. if not all, enemies with that 1 party since the leader is the only one that is going to carry the benefits to the next level.

3: don't waste spells. Research them but don't waste your 1 (or 2) spells a day when you don't necessarily need to. A spell cast at the right time, be it a heal, extra movement or if you manage to land an overworld spell on an off screen party it can tip the balance in your favour.

4: Don't be afraid to lose a node or even to create a new leader and send it in as a sacrifice. If you know the enemy party can kill your leaders party, best stop them from reaching it. If the enemy takes out a node or a sacrifice party/hero instead you gain 2, possibly 3 things, info about their location and a chance to hit them with an overworld spell, the 3rd is managing to do damage to the party through the defeat in combat making it easier for the leaders party to come in and mop up.

5: The enemy A.I. is pretty stupid. If you can summon a unit in battle, with a rune for example, the enemy will focus all their attacks on the summoned creature until it is dead, freeing up your actual units. For the empire node guardian, you are practically invincible by the time they level up once since they can summon air elementals which draw all the attention.

I know you are hitting the wall at turn 8 - 9 so some of this advice probably doesn't apply but it will. I'm sure others with more experience have better advice if they choose to post as well, but I hope this helps, even if just a little. Don't give up, it's not the greatest game in the world but it does get better after the initial difficulty spike.
Last edited by Psychos; Mar 22, 2013 @ 4:28pm
papagoose Mar 22, 2013 @ 5:12pm 
Thanks for the reply. I did manage to get through the first map eventually, but running through the first few fights loads of times just to find a couple of elf squads that I could cope with one after the other wasn't fun. I can see that many people may get turned off the game by this.

As you say the next couple of maps have been much easier with my upgraded leader. To the point were many fights get skipped with the quick battle feature. Not sure it was the best choice to frontload all the difficulty in a game.

For all it's faults though I have kept playing and when you get past the first bit it becomes more enjoyable.
Last edited by papagoose; Mar 24, 2013 @ 6:00am
Nax_o Mar 24, 2013 @ 5:58am 
I played through all campaigns + expansion in D2 and so far i am enjoying myself D3. Apparently all bugs have been fixed? Off-screen attacks by the enemy and 'unfair' fights are a trademark for this game series which can be quite offsetting to newbies. Sometimes the difference between defeat and victory is one missed hit or a simple armor potion.

I wonder will the endings for campaigns be as grimm as they were in D2? No happy endings there. Ever.
Ajay Mar 24, 2013 @ 7:32am 
hey, an easy way to "avoid this fights" is to use their stupid "track" system, when you got a guard on this altars, they will try to engage him as long as you are not too near on them. This guard can easily kill them or when not cast enough damage so you can finish them off. Try to level lambert as tanky dps and all should work well until your army upgraded a few times.
Last edited by Ajay; Mar 29, 2013 @ 4:15am
Psychos Apr 1, 2013 @ 8:27am 
Originally posted by heikkito:
I played through all campaigns + expansion in D2 and so far i am enjoying myself D3. Apparently all bugs have been fixed? Off-screen attacks by the enemy and 'unfair' fights are a trademark for this game series which can be quite offsetting to newbies. Sometimes the difference between defeat and victory is one missed hit or a simple armor potion.

I wonder will the endings for campaigns be as grimm as they were in D2? No happy endings there. Ever.

Off screen attacks, as in, the enemy will attack from an area outside of the given map, to the player it looks like the enemy has teleported units to where they shouldn't be able to go. For example, the elven parties that spawn in the first empire mission often come from the north, beyond where the player can go, but their capital is in the south so they aren't merely units being sent out from there.

I've played the entirity of Disciples 1 and 2 and, I guess "Off map" attacks is a better phrase, but they were usually confined to triggered events, not a regular occurance like they are in D3. Getting attacked out of the fog of war by a high level enemy party that originated in the capital or town is, I agree, part of the series.
Last edited by Psychos; Apr 1, 2013 @ 8:29am
Nax_o Apr 2, 2013 @ 12:26am 
First map was a strange one. I saw parties literaly appear from south and east borders of the map. They just arrived out of nowhere and attempted to gank me with bigger numbers/strength. even when they dont really have the chance to actualy defeat me they kept coming.

On Empire campaign map 2 there was suddenly demons strolling around. i met the first one on turn 2! but it just walked past me. I returned back to 'defend my capital' and took on the demon and his party. Tough fight right of the bat but hey, it didnt surprise me at all. This game just is like this. You may get a 2-8 turn 'grace period' at the beginning but usualy the first nastiness begins right away.



I am now on Empire mission 4 on this game and i am having a blast!

I have read through a lot of review of this game and it appears most of the bugs have been fixed.(?)

Fore example this review here goes deep into combat inbalance and criticals: http://www.rpgwatch.com/show/article?articleid=156

... i have noticed none of this hit/miss stuff. though UI weirdness is there. Keyboard is almost useless except esc key and space for 'end turn'. And WHY o WHY is there no 'day' marking on the saves. i actualy have to keep a system where i have 3 game saves that i rotate + some special saves such as post-battle or 'exposed' risky saves where i am vulnerable to game-ending ganking. and then i have 'quit game' save that i MUST use every time i quit the game or otherwise resuming the game is a pain.

But i have learned to overlook theese things because i have such a hunger for a challenge after Disciples 2 hit me so hard years ago. Age of Wonders and HOMM got nothing on this series and it's nasty-nasty world where even the 'good guys' are more or less freaks. :) .

D3 is not the best in the series but it satisfies a craving.

And i also love the artwork and the rotating 3D map is not that bad.

Perhaps i'll make a small review of this once i finish the campaign. I dont realy dare do one before i finish a campaign. Earlier 'real' reviews about this game are all so downplayed and sad and plagued by bugs. But with little luck they are now gone. i hope atleast. I want to see what happens to Inoel.

Playing through any campaign in Disciples games has never been a given thing. Sometimes certain maps are a serious test for endurance.

I think i still got bruising from the end-bosses in D2 campaigns. :)

Last edited by Nax_o; Apr 2, 2013 @ 12:28am
Nax_o Apr 2, 2013 @ 12:33am 
@Psychos. That list of advice you wrote earlier. perhaps there should be a separate thread for that. I would add some to that one too.

One thing that i wonder a lot is that i have been completely unable to find ANY kind of proper advice on how to play this game. I basicaly just do stuff from Disciples 2 memory and try to adapt. Luckily it gets me far. But for newbies this game series is very harsh.

Psychos Apr 4, 2013 @ 3:29pm 
Couldn't hurt, I agree there's a relative lack of resources based around the game. There's a few dedicated fan forums and a handful of russian sites but they are dedicated mainly to statistical data, unit stats, item lists etc. No real tips and tricks for the sometimes unintuitive gameplay

I'll set the topic up and see how it goes.
[VN] Michael Doan Apr 4, 2013 @ 8:18pm 
tricks from my own empires campaign hard difficulties:

1. Always have 1 more healer because Ionel will ALWAYS be overshadowed by tier 2 healer or higher I personally prefered cleric branch, she may has more healing power in statistic but she has lower health and low agility, the important stats for healer

2. at campaign 2 3 or so you will have access to wide range of permanent stat increase potions, armor for Lambert, agi for Ionel

3. Mage: if you want an easy way to beat AI even on hard difficulties, go with summoning mage, and summon air elements near their ranks, enemies melee units will always come after them and you can do whatever you want

4. DON"T waste your time level up a different hero, this campaign isn't that hard, but if you want, put a hero with your choice and fill him up with all titans and camp near enemies citadel, they attack from their citadel every turn but with only level 1 creatures, your titans should make a short work of them

Tricks for legion campaign on hard:

1. Melee: you want cost efficient, go for fiend, you lack money, sell all your unused artifacts the first time you controled a town (this is a global trick, keep your unused artifact and sell them in later campaigns to get a better financial start) and poured money into fiends. You want really easy-to-die-but-very-powerful units then go for bezecker upgrade. My personal favorite tactics are eagle eye these guys and send them into the killing, they crit a lot when buffed with eagle eye, or you can enrage them and send them to the fray, but they will miss alot when in rage mode, that's your preference

2. Mage: If you want to breeze through this campaign, go for witch parts. They can transform enemies into little imp, at succubus level, that spell become AOE. It meaned you're afraid to fight a full stack of elven night dancer with stupid high dex and agi ? IMPIFY them :)). Incubus is nice too because their spell can't be resist, that mean you can petrify enemy capital guardian too. But when you go for this unit, you should consider rely on crit build for harhuus, because enemies armor and their earth resistance will become higher when petrified. if you want your army will crit a lot, go for eagle eye branch, this is my personal favorite branch, eagle eye an infernal knight and you get yourself a Terminator ^^

3. Spells: if you think a battle is too hard for you to fight, use the + endurance spell on your unit, now you should see the difference, this spell last really long (2 turns I think). A 2000 health infernal knight are far more different than a 700 health infernal knights, you can tank AND mow down enemy at a same time

4. Garoyle: when you're at low level, you should consider, bring garoyle higher, unlike many range units from other races, this legion unit is suitable for tanking too

5. Hero: you should consider put another hero in motion from campaign 1, mainly because later, you will be attacked alot and from different off maps locations, your harhuus can't be everywhere at once, for easy level up practice for your new hero, fill him up with fiends and bring them near enemies capital, this new hero WILL need at least 4 leaderships for him to be effective at later campaigns missions, always fill him with fiend, use endurance spell on them, and then you have it, I killed a off map unit with 5 tier 4 units and a hero with this strategy. The main reason for this hero is just to hold the line and protect your territory for harhuus to freely move everywhere he wants

Tricks for alliance campaign on hard :

1. only 4 words: LOWER THE FREAKING DIFFICULTIES

2. another 4 words: DON'T PLAY GULD MASTER
Nax_o Apr 5, 2013 @ 5:26am 
Potions? permanent potions? i have completely missed that. :D

You see what i mean? it's the friggin details. i just learn and try to cope with what i knew from the past.

About the idea of having an extra healer: how can you raise leadership? i still have only innoel, lambert and 2 other people. (elementalist mostly due to the air elemental trick mentioned and a tank to support lambert)
[VN] Michael Doan Apr 5, 2013 @ 6:58am 
yeah, you'll have to visit a alchemist house to buy permanent boost potions but don't overuse it, it will break the game because it will put your hero in god mod if enough armor are gained (no melee damage can harm your hero)
You have 3 stats AND 2 skill points to raise each time you level up, you would find the skill panel in the same place of stat upgrade, and then look for + leadership (it's a skill with white flags) skill and work your way up there
if you find yourself in difficult situations, try a different approach, for example: you can't fight that elven army because you miss a lot and they crit so much that you can't do anything to them in a fair fight ? then don't fair play them, build mage tower as soon as possible, learn a damage spell and then nuke them with destruction spell first then attack because elf has very little health and no serious element resistance, hope this can help you
you think this is hard, then wait till you played alliance campaign, I hope by the time you get there you will get used to this game mechanic ^^
Nax_o Apr 5, 2013 @ 7:02am 
Wait what, i can buy leadership when i level up. :D

Hitting enemies hard before attacking is 101 in this game. so is armor spells before going into places where enemies cannot be hardmed in advance.

I better leave the alliance campaign till i get a really had skin from empire campaign first.

But hey, it's like this. i accept it. but i do hope there would be better guides on how to do things.
Nax_o Apr 5, 2013 @ 9:05am 
I feel like a total idiot. Not only have i been hoarding those static effect potions (i didnt believe they were actualy static so i just kept them awaiting for 'when i really really needed them)

I also didnt notice that when you hire a leader you get to assign 3 points to their skills right away. Perhaps i will just keep on playing and let the rest of you guys make the tips section. :D

edit: i just realized i have completely forgotten about the skill point system. i actualy have 43 unused skill points!

No wonder this game is so ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ tough. :D
Last edited by Nax_o; Apr 5, 2013 @ 9:20am
Psychos Apr 5, 2013 @ 3:04pm 
Originally posted by heikkito:
I feel like a total idiot. Not only have i been hoarding those static effect potions (i didnt believe they were actualy static so i just kept them awaiting for 'when i really really needed them)

I also didnt notice that when you hire a leader you get to assign 3 points to their skills right away. Perhaps i will just keep on playing and let the rest of you guys make the tips section. :D

edit: i just realized i have completely forgotten about the skill point system. i actualy have 43 unused skill points!

No wonder this game is so ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ tough. :D

Yes...lol...I literally have no idea how you've been playing the game if you've completely overlooked 43 skill points. Levelling your hero and pumping up their attributes and skills is what tips the balance of the game from hard to easy on the later acts of the campaign.

You want to do your best to explore as well, you get extra skill points, usually 2 per act, from shrines when you find them.
Nax_o Apr 6, 2013 @ 5:07am 
I played it the 'classical' way: Just a couple of team members, spells and temporary boosts and then loading the game when i get the 'GAME OVER' and so forth. i think i already have most of the achievements because i get whacked so often. I just dont notice it due to the way D2 thought me to look at defeat. If i would still be playing old HOMM games i would have rage quitted a long time ago.

Well now the game is very easy. At least for a moment being. Though i dont trust it will last.

Just wrapped up the fourth mission in Empire campaign and wrecked the mid-level black dragon boss. It was not even hard after i pumped up Lambert and had a full 6 crew. Dropped it's armor and wrecked it when it was down. But i better not get too excited yet. This series at least before used to have a tendency to lull you into a feeling of being the 'biggest and the baddest dude on the block' right before it ganks you hard.

About exploring: i go through every dungeon i can find and collect potions and useful runes. I also use them a lot when things get tough.
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