We do not manipulate odds in Ironcast

[Rovient]

Hello everyone!

I just wanted to come here and state that, with absolute honesty and certainty, we do not manipulate either the nodes that drop into the grid nor the chance of your shots missing.

Why would we? We do not charge players for more "moves", we don't get paid more when you die. We don't take satisfaction when your Overdrive MK5-R Energy Lance misses the boss and you get pummelled the very next turn.

This is what we call Gambler's Fallacy[en.wikipedia.org], where a player will believe that just because something is incredibly unlikely to occur (or not occur), events must be conspiring against them.

I'm quite happy to read the threads where players have to vent because they were quite rightly frustrated that they got nuked by Durant in his Ironcast 4 times in a row despite having 55% evasion. What makes me sad is to read reviews where the player has clearly loved Ironcast enough to spend dozens of hours of their precious free time playing and enjoying the game, only to give us a Not recommended, based upon the fact they think the nodes are rigged against them, or that our evasion percentages are all made up.

So, feel free to criticise the balance of weapons, abilities, Commanders or anything else, but believe me; sometimes it's just bad luck!

Now get back to saving Britain! For Queen and Country!

Daniel

NOTE: Edited to remove any personal information.

[DeadPoolX]

Well, this game does rely far too much on luck and not nearly enough on strategy. Well over the half the time what decides if you're going to win or lose is simply a random shuffle of nodes. That's ridiculous. It takes away any and all strategic value in a game.

As long as I plan properly, use gear carefully, and fight smart, I should be able to win, no questions asked. Unfortunately, none of that matters since the nodes on the board can completely destroy your run, regardless of whatever you've done or how you've prepared.

It's because of this randomized behavior that I consistantly lose to Durant. No, this isn't me needing to "learn to play the game" since I've lost rounds because there are NO coolant nodes. I also wasn't lucky enough to get any coolant abilities, active or passive.

So it didn't matter that I had a well-equipped mech. It didn't matter that I had an extremely sound strategy down or that I had a crapload of troop strength simply because I couldn't do anything. I couldn't shoot, move, or raise shields without damaging myself. So the entire match came down to a choice of: do I kill myself or let Durant kill me?

This isn't a one-time thing either. I've reached Durant now several times (each time with a different mech, pilot, and equipment) and I'm consistantly thwarted by the lack of nodes needed to fight (usually coolant, but sometimes energy as well).

The difficultly level in this game needs to be toned WAY down and the node requirements drastically reduced. If I could, I'd get a refund, but I know Steam doesn't do that and I doubt the developer would either.

[Misguided]

Rovient, I'm a huge Puzzle Quest. Every time a zpQ game comes out, people accuse the game of cheating, even though Steve Fawkner has published the ai and gem creation bits of the code. It's just how it is with games like this because of recall bias. Don't let it get you down.

[Clord]

To be honest, trying to explain it just adds more fuel to fire. A lot of players try to make up excuses why they lost, especially if they got far.

[TehJumpingJawa]

Makes me facepalm every time I hear someone say something like:
"I don't do <XYZ> because I'm unlucky".

[Xerxes Aragon]

Originally posted by DeadPoolX:

Well, this game does rely far too much on luck and not nearly enough on strategy. Well over the half the time what decides if you're going to win or lose is simply a random shuffle of nodes. That's ridiculous. It takes away any and all strategic value in a game.

As long as I plan properly, use gear carefully, and fight smart, I should be able to win, no questions asked. Unfortunately, none of that matters since the nodes on the board can completely destroy your run, regardless of whatever you've done or how you've prepared.

It's because of this randomized behavior that I consistantly lose to Durant. No, this isn't me needing to "learn to play the game" since I've lost rounds because there are NO coolant nodes. I also wasn't lucky enough to get any coolant abilities, active or passive.

So it didn't matter that I had a well-equipped mech. It didn't matter that I had an extremely sound strategy down or that I had a crapload of troop strength simply because I couldn't do anything. I couldn't shoot, move, or raise shields without damaging myself. So the entire match came down to a choice of: do I kill myself or let Durant kill me?

This isn't a one-time thing either. I've reached Durant now several times (each time with a different mech, pilot, and equipment) and I'm consistantly thwarted by the lack of nodes needed to fight (usually coolant, but sometimes energy as well).

The difficultly level in this game needs to be toned WAY down and the node requirements drastically reduced. If I could, I'd get a refund, but I know Steam doesn't do that and I doubt the developer would either.

I recommend that you don't play Talisman then. You can build yourself up to the biggest, strongest, baddest mofo capable of beating everyone else into the dirt, and then along comes a Basilisk and with one bad throw of the dice you're nothing but a useless pile of stone.

[DocRask]

It's cools. Last, last boss grid was so messed up for me, that I could only make one match before it rerolled it. The fight was nuts. For a match 3 game. (I'm not really good at these games, first match 3 game and all) The funny thing is, I... won that fight. First time I beat the last boss. Wierd but I got a huge rush of joy out of it. I was also 1 node short from node master achivement. Good times like it was 1999.

[Minnow]

I have yet to fail a run aside from my very first. I don't even understand why this is so hard for some people. Match better, guys.

[Ashley]

Originally posted by DeadPoolX:

Well, this game does rely far too much on luck and not nearly enough on strategy. Well over the half the time what decides if you're going to win or lose is simply a random shuffle of nodes. That's ridiculous. It takes away any and all strategic value in a game.

As long as I plan properly, use gear carefully, and fight smart, I should be able to win, no questions asked. Unfortunately, none of that matters since the nodes on the board can completely destroy your run, regardless of whatever you've done or how you've prepared.

It's because of this randomized behavior that I consistantly lose to Durant. No, this isn't me needing to "learn to play the game" since I've lost rounds because there are NO coolant nodes. I also wasn't lucky enough to get any coolant abilities, active or passive.

So it didn't matter that I had a well-equipped mech. It didn't matter that I had an extremely sound strategy down or that I had a crapload of troop strength simply because I couldn't do anything. I couldn't shoot, move, or raise shields without damaging myself. So the entire match came down to a choice of: do I kill myself or let Durant kill me?

This isn't a one-time thing either. I've reached Durant now several times (each time with a different mech, pilot, and equipment) and I'm consistantly thwarted by the lack of nodes needed to fight (usually coolant, but sometimes energy as well).

The difficultly level in this game needs to be toned WAY down and the node requirements drastically reduced. If I could, I'd get a refund, but I know Steam doesn't do that and I doubt the developer would either.

This is a luck-based game. Strategy will only get you so far.
That's like complaining about bad rolls in Monopoly/Mario Party, or drawing a bad hand at Poker/Magic/Hearthstone.

I agree the game is very tight, thus making the RNG hit even harder, but it's by no means bad and neither does it take away "all strategic value".
These kinds of games are supposed to be unpredictable - and even unwinnable at times (ambushing me with an enemy that's twice as tough as the one before in the same fight? Gee, thanks!).

But you know what? That's life. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.
What matters is the fight, not the end result.

This is what I don't understand with gamers these days.
Some act like the game is a chore and only victory gives them pleasure - when it should actually be the other way around.
If you gain no pleasure from playing the game, rather than just winning, I'd say this is not a hobby you should spend your time on.

I understand you think you lost for all the wrong reasons, but I disagree.
You just picked the wrong game. It's a shame, but that just happens.

Again, dice rolls: A staple of entertainment since the beginning of time.
It's always been like this and it won't change just because you can't stand losing.

I have never beaten this game, but TRYING is still fun.

[Loomi]

Originally posted by Exusia:

Originally posted by DeadPoolX:

Well, this game does rely far too much on luck and not nearly enough on strategy. Well over the half the time what decides if you're going to win or lose is simply a random shuffle of nodes. That's ridiculous. It takes away any and all strategic value in a game.

As long as I plan properly, use gear carefully, and fight smart, I should be able to win, no questions asked. Unfortunately, none of that matters since the nodes on the board can completely destroy your run, regardless of whatever you've done or how you've prepared.

It's because of this randomized behavior that I consistantly lose to Durant. No, this isn't me needing to "learn to play the game" since I've lost rounds because there are NO coolant nodes. I also wasn't lucky enough to get any coolant abilities, active or passive.

So it didn't matter that I had a well-equipped mech. It didn't matter that I had an extremely sound strategy down or that I had a crapload of troop strength simply because I couldn't do anything. I couldn't shoot, move, or raise shields without damaging myself. So the entire match came down to a choice of: do I kill myself or let Durant kill me?

This isn't a one-time thing either. I've reached Durant now several times (each time with a different mech, pilot, and equipment) and I'm consistantly thwarted by the lack of nodes needed to fight (usually coolant, but sometimes energy as well).

The difficultly level in this game needs to be toned WAY down and the node requirements drastically reduced. If I could, I'd get a refund, but I know Steam doesn't do that and I doubt the developer would either.

This is a luck-based game. Strategy will only get you so far.
That's like complaining about bad rolls in Monopoly/Mario Party, or drawing a bad hand at Poker/Magic/Hearthstone.

I agree the game is very tight, thus making the RNG hit even harder, but it's by no means bad and neither does it take away "all strategic value".
These kinds of games are supposed to be unpredictable - and even unwinnable at times (ambushing me with an enemy that's twice as tough as the one before in the same fight? Gee, thanks!).

But you know what? That's life. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.
What matters is the fight, not the end result.

This is what I don't understand with gamers these days.
Some act like the game is a chore and only victory gives them pleasure - when it should actually be the other way around.
If you gain no pleasure from playing the game, rather than just winning, I'd say this is not a hobby you should spend your time on.

I understand you think you lost for all the wrong reasons, but I disagree.
You just picked the wrong game. It's a shame, but that just happens.

Again, dice rolls: A staple of entertainment since the beginning of time.
It's always been like this and it won't change just because you can't stand losing.

I have never beaten this game, but TRYING is still fun.

Spoken like a true gamer!

RNG can be a pain, but it's also one of the main reasons most games have any replay value.

[DeadPoolX]

As someone who's been a gamer since 1984 (my first computer was an Apple IIc and my first console was an Atari 2600), I think I've probably been a gamer longer than at least half the people here have even been alive.

I don't derive pleasure from a game solely out of winning. Many of the games I've played over my three decade long gaming "career" have been all about the journey. I started with Adventure games, such as the classic Sierra Online and LucasArts titles which were always more about story and characters.

My issue is that the AI is cheap (why can it fire on round one and I can't?) and no matter what you do to prepare, a single instance of not getting enough nodes or not getting a good drop can ruin your entire run.

That wouldn't be so bad if the game didn't include permadeath. I'd even settle for being able to save mid-mission if I have to leave the game, but as it stands right now, if I do that, I'll lose my entire campaign. That's insane. Even other Roguelikes save the game if and when you decide to quit.

All of that said, perhaps I was under the mistaken impression this game relies more on strategy than luck. If it truly is entirely luck-based (and it certainly seems so), then perhaps the reason I lost wasn't that unusual.

[paladinMJ]

DeadPoolX another old fougy here, i played pong before atari came out and used cassette tape drives on my comodore

[DeadPoolX]

Originally posted by paladinMJ:

DeadPoolX another old fougy here, i played pong before atari came out and used cassette tape drives on my comodore

Nice! Cassette-tape games were a little before I started playing.

I remember as a kid asking my dad for a Commodore or an Amiga, because they had better games and better graphics.

My wife's also a gamer. She started with Zork on the computer and had an Intellivision for a console.

[Food Fodder]

Hey guys,

Stop accusing the devs. For 35 hours so far I can say that it rarly happens that I get so unlucky to lose because of it. If so then maybe on the upgrade side of things but that's not really an issue.
@DeadPoolX I think that when you had problems beating the first boss several times, maybe your overall strategy needs some improvement > mission/upgrade/ability selection, ability timing, combat tactics, resource management!!!. That's all part of the strategy and a strategy game it is. You have to learn from experience here and that makes it fun for me. I've never played anything like this before.

[DeadPoolX]

Originally posted by Food Fodder:

Hey guys,

Stop accusing the devs. For 35 hours so far I can say that it rarly happens that I get so unlucky to lose because of it. If so then maybe on the upgrade side of things but that's not really an issue.
@DeadPoolX I think that when you had problems beating the first boss several times, maybe your overall strategy needs some improvement > mission/upgrade/ability selection, ability timing, combat tactics, resource management!!!. That's all part of the strategy and a strategy game it is. You have to learn from experience here and that makes it fun for me. I've never played anything like this before.

I've upgraded my mech a couple of times (such as more ammo capacity or energy) and I have all MKIII systems. I have one weapon that hits hard once, and another that does slightly less damage but hits multiple times. I have hardened drives and a dense shield as well.

The problem for me -- and this has killed me each and every single time -- is the complete and utter lack of coolant nodes appearing. Without coolant, I can't do squat. If I shoot, move, or raise shields, I do damage to myself, but if I do nothing, Durant damages me. In the end, my choice is: kill myself or let Durant kill me.

Yes, I know there are abilities to turn nodes into coolant nodes or regain it all immediately, but I haven't been lucky enough to get those on any of the runs where I got to Durant. If I ever get the chance to choose those, I'll be sure to take them. Unfortunately, your choice of abilities is completely random.

So it's not my strategy that needs work (to be honest, it's not even MY strategy that I'm using, it's what's been written down as suggestions and guides by other players who've beaten the game) it's that I have had a colossal amount of bad luck when it comes to gaining abilities and getting the nodes I need, particularly coolant nodes.

[daemonworks]

The first rule of any roguelike is "death is arbitrary".

You're not always going to be given what you need to win. In most of them, you'll quite rarely get what you need to win. Such is the nature of the genre. You die, you start again, and hope that next time the RNG gods will smile on you next time.