Evolution RTS

Evolution RTS

bill08816 Aug 23, 2016 @ 7:16pm
Shorten the Siege Phase
I find that defense within the game is too strong for their cost.

I believe a good Real Time Strategy should focus it's attention on the battles between armies, not the siege at your enemy's base. If the skirmish phase is longer than the siege phase, then it's either an imbalance of player skills or of some flaw with game design. In the case, the issue appears to be the latter, a flaw in game design, since siege phases are longer than skirmish phases.

Why is this bad?
Having longer sieges means boring gameplay. The winning player should not produce several armies nor produce anti-building weapons to win a siege. A castle without an army should fall easy to an overwhelming army. That means, if a player loses on the battlefield, then he/she should lose even faster when hiding in base with an even smaller army. However, this is not the case. The defending player just has to make more defense while the aggressive player has to either switch to artillery or nukes, both of which are expensive and time-consuming. That's because smashing a 200/200 army of MBTs into a base doesn't work.

My fixes:
Number 1: Replace all towers types with Balanced, Artillery, Anti-Air, Faction-Based
Balanced Towers deal low damage, but has high health. It's meant to delay armies for a fraction of a second before being wiped out. It's best served as a sentry to protect outposts or early game bases.
Size: Small

Artillery Towers fires small explosives with little energy at long range, but has weak damage. This building should act as a deterrent a.k.a "all bark, no bite" turret. Basically, a turret or turrets that large armies can ignore.
Size: Medium

Anti-air can only attack air. They have large range, but are large and energy expensive.
Size: Large

Faction-Based towers are specialist towers. For example, anti-armor towers or mortar towers.

Number 2: Increase Construction Time of Production Buildings.
Production facilities are the most important building in Evolution RTS. It produces units to attack, defend, repair, and conquer, so player production should be crippled when it is destroyed. Therefore, production facilities should have their construction time increased to 30 seconds. This decreases the chance of players to make a comeback when they've clearly lost the battlefield. On the contrary, it can also cripple an unsuspecting player from winning. Both incentivizes players to harass production facilities bringing the battle to the home front.

Number 3: Increase Requirements of Units. Decrease Supply Cost for Late Game Units, but increase Energy Cost for Late Game Units.
No player should have access to all units at the 4 minute mark and is also completely unnecessary(I've done it and so can better players).
However, a player should not have to replace most of its units for specialized end game units. An energy penalty is suggested to compensate for the excessive amounts of late game energy.

If a player wants to end a siege, they should be able to do so swiftly.
Last edited by bill08816; Aug 23, 2016 @ 7:23pm
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#CashMeOusideHowBouDah  [developer] Aug 23, 2016 @ 8:35pm 
I'm not sure how to say it really, but there isn't really much of a siege phase in evo. If there is one it's very heavily mixed in with the skirmish phase.

You kind of hit it on the head in your first paragraph. What you have seen is mainly due to player inexperience. A lot of the games I have seen recently, people aren't understanding the importance of capturing control points, which, if you control a majority of points and the other player turtles in his base, you win regardless. It might make for a bit of a boring game, but if you own 6 points to his 1, his score is counting down by 6 every second meaning an 8 minute game or so.

I disagree that arty is expensive. The arty in each tech is only marginally more expensive than raiders.

For example:
Hover:
Raider - Kite - Cost: 27 Metal ( https://github.com/EvolutionRTS/Evolution-RTS/blob/master/Units/ehover/elighttank3.lua#L29 )

Artillery - Shadowfury - Cost: 36 metal ( https://github.com/EvolutionRTS/Evolution-RTS/blob/master/Units/ehover/eartytank.lua#L34 )

Amphib:
Raider - Snake - Cost: 18 Metal ( https://github.com/EvolutionRTS/Evolution-RTS/blob/master/Units/eamphib/eamphibbuggy.lua#L31 )

Artillery - Assimilator - Cost: 36 Metal ( https://github.com/EvolutionRTS/Evolution-RTS/blob/master/Units/eamphib/eamphibarty.lua#L31 )

All Terrain:
Raider - Recluse - Cost: 22 Metal ( https://github.com/EvolutionRTS/Evolution-RTS/blob/master/Units/eallterrain/eallterrlight.lua#L31 )

Artillery - Anvil - Cost: 60 Metal ( https://github.com/EvolutionRTS/Evolution-RTS/blob/master/Units/eallterrain/eallterrassault.lua#L31 )

Aircraft:
Artillery - Kamper - Cost: 55 Metal ( https://github.com/EvolutionRTS/Evolution-RTS/blob/master/Units/eair/ebomber.lua#L32 )

The supply and power requirements for artillery are quite low as well.

It should also be noted that the immolator is the turret with the longest range at 1000, and all artillery outranges it with the exception of the Assimilator. Additionally all arty does bonus damage to buildings as well.

tl;dr I disagree that arty is in any way expensive.

I can't imagine any scenario where building turrets beats building an army. Lots of turrets means that you might need to change up your composition, but a mobile army still beats that pants off of a static turret. Keep in mind, when it comes to metal, both you and your opponent have the same income all game long, so any metal he is spending on turrets is metal he isn't spending on army.

Additionally, turrets are prohibitively expensive:
Lightning Rod - Anti-Raider - Cost: 80 Metal ( https://github.com/EvolutionRTS/Evolution-RTS/blob/master/Units/ebuilding/elightturret2.lua#L23)

Immolator - Anti-Armor - Cost: 180 Metal ( https://github.com/EvolutionRTS/Evolution-RTS/blob/master/Units/ebuilding/eheavyturret2.lua#L23 )

Now might be the time where I point out that a nuke silo is only 450.

Now your point about it being time consuming to root out a turtle is one reason why 2750 is the new default score limit. So that, frankly, players don't have time to turtle.

Arty tower is meant to take out other buildings. It sucks vs units intentionally. It's a very niche/conditional unit and imo isn't really necessary anymore. Fun fact, you can use them to take out enemy defenses... It's the only turret that can shoot at buildings (I just removed it's supply requirement as well, so happy hunting).

Anti-air only would be rather redundant. Anything in the game can fire at air, you can even lock on a nuke to aircraft if you maintain los long enough (there is a video on youtube of us laughing when watching a nuke strike where the nuke curved to hit a construction aircraft Edit, can't find it :''''( ).

Supply costs are already pretty low. You can have a fairly massive army at 200 supply. Although you might not be aware that currently ORBs and Engineers eat supply (They don't anymore in the alpha version).

Energy costs are mathematically applied taking multiple factors into account. Number of projectiles, AOE, damage, etc. An example of one of these calculations is:
local energycosttofire = weapon1Damage / 10 * ((weapon1AOE / 1000) + 1)

This formula is applied evenly across everything, even shields.

An experienced player can end a siege quite quickly. I personally believe that you are encountering players who probably aren't at your skill level, but you don't have enough in-depth knowledge of the game to know the best ways to counter these silly strategies. That's not your fault. If anything it's my fault for the lack of adequate documentation (a problem that I'm trying very hard to fix).

I don't mean any of this in a derogatory or condescending way. I am, however, trying to relate that we have definitely dealt with issues like this in the past and that there are tools available to help you nullify them.

Also, while disagreed with a lot, I want to wholeheartedly thank you for spending so much time on constructively criticizing the game. It and I need this sort of criticism, because there might be times where you make me find issues that I didn't previously know about. Additionally, I welcome further discussion on it as well.
KoyoteKamper Aug 24, 2016 @ 2:26am 
The capture point system that is in the game (or is going to be) is meant to prevent players from being able to turtle up and defend themselves from losing. You never lose access to your metal income so there is an ability to come back from a mid-game loss in a fight by rebuilding but by having exactly the same amount of income throughout the game as your opponent means that the overall winner of every game will be who uses their metal the most effectively to hold the points on the map. Defending your base and it's buildings and nuking the hell out of your opponents still has a place in the game but it is more of a way to try to efficiently protect and/or destroy the resources that you only get a limited amount of. The overall winner is not who can survive the longest in most matches. The winner will be who can control the most ground for the majority of the game time. In this way capture points make the core game much the same as many other rts games while giving a losing opponent a chance to make a comeback.
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