ACE - Arena: Cyber Evolution

ACE - Arena: Cyber Evolution

Balancing the runners
So ever since Hikari got nerfed a while ago nobody seems to think she is overpowered anymore. Its not too badly balanced, but i don't really get why her secondary is so much better than Vengeful stars. Honestly, I think that just reducing the cooldown for VS by 2 and increasing the cooldown of the secondary for the Hikari by 2 would balance this out adequately.

Stalker probably deserves a slight speed increase because he should be the fastest runner. Hiro should have a speed decrease, but it seems like his secondary should be polished or improved or whatever. I haven't actually played with Hiro yet, but just from watching the games with him thats what I think. I could be completely wrong, let me know.

Captain smokes bots were improved, but they should probably be worth something aside from making impossible shots. Maybe make them actually helpful on defense. Also, the amount of area that his secondary covers should be slightly increased.

I've said a few times that I think forwards grab range overall should be slightly decreased, but I think something everybody has forgotten is the strength system. Hikari and VS are a 1. Stalker and Hiro are a 2. Nitrogen queen and Vexwrecker are a 3. Captain Smoke is a 4. Sentinel and Negociator are a 5. Their pushing power goes up as the number goes up. Therefore, captain smoke is alot stronger than Hikari. This might help balance the forwards with the midfielders.

These are just a few ideas of what I think should be changed. They aren't neccesarily the only things I would do, but some basic ones that I think should be a priority. I realize that you probably won't implement any of these, but I just wanted to say my ideas. Even if i'm wrong, the runners are still unbalanced. Sentinel is clearly better than Negociator and Captain Smoke sucks. Its time to do something about this.
Last edited by Soupcan Sam; May 5, 2015 @ 7:06pm
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Showing 1-15 of 27 comments
orcplunder May 5, 2015 @ 7:26pm 
Hikari most definitely still is very overpowered. A team is not complete without a Hikari on board. And all they have to do to fix it is make the ultimate uncontrollable. Would still be good, but not as broken.

Also Hikari's secondary is not better than Vengeful Star's. It is less accurate and has less acceleration. It's better for some things, but for scoring goals, Vengeful's is better.

And Captain Smoke will never be good because relying on the AI to do anything for you in any game will never work as it is too RNG-based. But, the best way to make him as good as he can be is by reducing the delay between using the ult and the drone appearing, and, of course, the biggest one, make it so the drone will literally ALWAYS shoot right as he gets the puck. No exceptions. No passes, no holding the puck, pure shots. Basically, or rather literally becomes a pocket bouncy wall. Would be better if it was wide and didn't move, but, gotta work with what you got.
7-7 May 5, 2015 @ 7:27pm 
agree with absolutely everything, but just because Smoke's secondary is a hard trickshot and his bots dont seem that useful, does not mean he is not viable, i played a few hundred games as smoke in fall and winter, and ive got the trickshots down, also the buff to his drones was INSANE, trust me, not saying its op as there is only two, but you can sheild cancel and score VERY easily with them. CS is a harder character.

Disregard all that im just bragging, fact is nobody has that much experience on smoke and he is not very useful until you get the hang of him and his postioning and aiming. What I would do is make smoke's secondary either bigger or faster, and also add two more drones, if this makes him too powerful, nerf him, but it would be good to gauge where he lies on the viability scale!
7-7 May 5, 2015 @ 7:29pm 
I also think Hikari's ult is better in almost every way, the 10 second recharge on secondary is so fast
orcplunder May 5, 2015 @ 7:31pm 
Originally posted by NFO Cpt. Greybeard:
I also think Hikari's ult is better in almost every way, the 10 second recharge on secondary is so fast
true don't ask me why Hikari gets 3 ults but Vengeful Star, who has a terrible ultimate, has only 2.
7-7 May 5, 2015 @ 7:33pm 
I mean dont get me wrong, Hikari is just designed by a spearhead from a different time than vs, he is put together extremely well and he is the perfect example of a masterpeice of a runner. But vs cant really compare in terms of supporting teammates and ults
orcplunder May 5, 2015 @ 7:43pm 
Originally posted by NFO Cpt. Greybeard:
I mean dont get me wrong, Hikari is just designed by a spearhead from a different time than vs, he is put together extremely well and he is the perfect example of a masterpeice of a runner. But vs cant really compare in terms of supporting teammates and ults
I disagree. I can't imagine a runner they can make that will make Hikari not be a staple in every team. He's the best defenseman in the game and he's a striker. He's also the second best at scoring goals (Debatable... I could listen to arguments having him as #1, but he's definitely not the best at one timers which is the best way to score so...), and if you consider secondary's cooldown, he's also the best passer in the game. He also happens to be the fastest runner in the game. No, that's being designed as strictly OP. His ultimate is also the second best ultimate in game, next to Sentinel who I also believe is insanely overpowered.
Last edited by orcplunder; May 5, 2015 @ 7:44pm
7-7 May 5, 2015 @ 7:49pm 
Originally posted by iB Hypnos:
Originally posted by NFO Cpt. Greybeard:
I mean dont get me wrong, Hikari is just designed by a spearhead from a different time than vs, he is put together extremely well and he is the perfect example of a masterpeice of a runner. But vs cant really compare in terms of supporting teammates and ults
I disagree. I can't imagine a runner they can make that will make Hikari not be a staple in every team. He's the best defenseman in the game and he's a striker. He's also the second best at scoring goals (Debatable... I could listen to arguments having him as #1, but he's definitely not the best at one timers which is the best way to score so...), and if you consider secondary's cooldown, he's also the best passer in the game. He also happens to be the fastest runner in the game. No, that's being designed as strictly OP. His ultimate is also the second best ultimate in game, next to Sentinel who I also believe is insanely overpowered.
Ok I agree with this, he does need a nerf, i think keep his great ablities, take his speed down and reduce his shot boost speed just a little, make vs have faster shot speed, and make stalker the fastest, or faster while cloaked.
orcplunder May 5, 2015 @ 9:09pm 
Originally posted by NFO Cpt. Greybeard:
Originally posted by iB Hypnos:
I disagree. I can't imagine a runner they can make that will make Hikari not be a staple in every team. He's the best defenseman in the game and he's a striker. He's also the second best at scoring goals (Debatable... I could listen to arguments having him as #1, but he's definitely not the best at one timers which is the best way to score so...), and if you consider secondary's cooldown, he's also the best passer in the game. He also happens to be the fastest runner in the game. No, that's being designed as strictly OP. His ultimate is also the second best ultimate in game, next to Sentinel who I also believe is insanely overpowered.
Ok I agree with this, he does need a nerf, i think keep his great ablities, take his speed down and reduce his shot boost speed just a little, make vs have faster shot speed, and make stalker the fastest, or faster while cloaked.
Honestly, if they make his secondary's cooldown a little longer and make his ult uncontrollable, which would only seem weird to those who got a chance to control it before, he'd be a lot more balanced. Doesn't have to be much more complicated than that IMO.
7-7 May 5, 2015 @ 9:40pm 
Originally posted by iB Hypnos:
Originally posted by NFO Cpt. Greybeard:
Ok I agree with this, he does need a nerf, i think keep his great ablities, take his speed down and reduce his shot boost speed just a little, make vs have faster shot speed, and make stalker the fastest, or faster while cloaked.
Honestly, if they make his secondary's cooldown a little longer and make his ult uncontrollable, which would only seem weird to those who got a chance to control it before, he'd be a lot more balanced. Doesn't have to be much more complicated than that IMO.
ok, that seems like a better solution, but thats what i would like to see with the strikers
Soupcan Sam May 6, 2015 @ 2:40pm 
Sadly, I doubt most of this will happen. My impression is that spearhead is under the illusion that their runners are balanced. It is definitely balanced and I'm not sure why nothing has been done sooner. I just hope they will fix this.
orcplunder May 6, 2015 @ 3:03pm 
Originally posted by OAUFord Prefect:
Sadly, I doubt most of this will happen. My impression is that spearhead is under the illusion that their runners are balanced. It is definitely balanced and I'm not sure why nothing has been done sooner. I just hope they will fix this.
The main one they have to nerf is Sentinel. Once more than 1 goal per game is scored per team, more options will likely be opened. Not that it will make the supports viable, but it will be a start to, for example, seeing more Stalkers or Hiros. And MAYBE Vexwrecker, although his speed is a major detriment.
Soupcan Sam May 6, 2015 @ 3:46pm 
Originally posted by iB Hypnos:
Originally posted by OAUFord Prefect:
Sadly, I doubt most of this will happen. My impression is that spearhead is under the illusion that their runners are balanced. It is definitely balanced and I'm not sure why nothing has been done sooner. I just hope they will fix this.
The main one they have to nerf is Sentinel. Once more than 1 goal per game is scored per team, more options will likely be opened. Not that it will make the supports viable, but it will be a start to, for example, seeing more Stalkers or Hiros. And MAYBE Vexwrecker, although his speed is a major detriment.
Yeah i told tohu like months ago that Sentinel was OP but he ignored me. Its definitely way more effective than negociator is.
Last edited by Soupcan Sam; May 6, 2015 @ 3:46pm
orcplunder May 6, 2015 @ 4:16pm 
Originally posted by OAUFord Prefect:
Originally posted by iB Hypnos:
The main one they have to nerf is Sentinel. Once more than 1 goal per game is scored per team, more options will likely be opened. Not that it will make the supports viable, but it will be a start to, for example, seeing more Stalkers or Hiros. And MAYBE Vexwrecker, although his speed is a major detriment.
Yeah i told tohu like months ago that Sentinel was OP but he ignored me. Its definitely way more effective than negociator is.
It's so simple that I find it really funny.

Sentinel has anywhere from 3-5 depending on who picks up the +1's free saves. Play a game against BrL. Count how many "certain goals" you get. Oh trust me, the number will be less than 5. Likely less than 3. Or it'll be 3... Not sure. And ALL of them should be stopped by the ultimate. Do the same against a Negociator. Tell me how many were stopped by Negociator.

Compare the final scores.
Soupcan Sam May 6, 2015 @ 4:19pm 
Originally posted by iB Hypnos:
Originally posted by OAUFord Prefect:
Yeah i told tohu like months ago that Sentinel was OP but he ignored me. Its definitely way more effective than negociator is.
It's so simple that I find it really funny.

Sentinel has anywhere from 3-5 depending on who picks up the +1's free saves. Play a game against BrL. Count how many "certain goals" you get. Oh trust me, the number will be less than 5. Likely less than 3. Or it'll be 3... Not sure. And ALL of them should be stopped by the ultimate. Do the same against a Negociator. Tell me how many were stopped by Negociator.

Compare the final scores.
Trust me, i know. And the pillar is way better also
Jmthebigman May 7, 2015 @ 1:11am 
Yesterday a 2v2 match with sentinel goalie at each side.
Lost with 1-2;
the 0-1 was at 40 seconds to go where the enemy finally had the rebound of my pillar, squeezed it just between my reach and the goal post, litterly 1 milimeter to any side and it wouldnt of gone in :P

Cause of little time I went up to force a goal, got counterd 0-2, made a fast 1-2 after it but no more time for a 2-2.

It was way more tense match than it would of been with the Negociator.
90% of the attacks got killed on both sides by a Pillar before an attacker could even shoot.
Clearance always landed in the hands of the enemy goalkeeper (from both perspective)

Not saying he needs changes but surely is more fun as well.
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