Star Ruler 2

Star Ruler 2

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is research inherently slower on larger galaxies ?
I'm wondering, cause it seems hard to finish the whole tree and my economy is strong
10M budget, 28M income .... rolling in size 4k ships .....
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Showing 1-15 of 17 comments
Dalo Lorn Feb 14 @ 12:38am 
It's not a matter of galaxy size - it's a matter of research points.

Each time you acquire 2000 RP, it'll take twice as long to get another 2000 RP - I labeled the phenomenon 'Research Efficiency Decay' when I made it changeable for Rising Stars.

Every research point you get slightly reduces research efficiency; the reason I singled out the number 2000 is that that's the point at which the generation is precisely halved.
ok so that means it'll get difficult to finish the reasearch tree in any game unless you play for very long I suppose ?
Originally posted by DBH*Whismerhill*{SSgt}:
ok so that means it'll get difficult to finish the reasearch tree in any game unless you play for very long I suppose ?

Extremely long, yes.
ha that puts a whole new strategy level to the game
If you play a research heavy build and on around 60-100 systems per player for your large games you can complete the vast majority of "useful" techs in 2-3 hours.
Astasia Feb 14 @ 5:09pm 
Originally posted by Dalo Lorn:
Each time you acquire 2000 RP, it'll take twice as long to get another 2000 RP

You mean 20000 RP? I haven't played in a while, just started a new unmodded game yesterday and I'm getting the hang of the mechanics again, but I've been at around 3-5 RP/s for quite some time with barely any research changes. Early on I built 4 research labs on my home planet and imported a phasite there, then queue'd up to the tech that adds +2 research pressure per lab, and that's about the extent of my research income (also built 2-3 of the tier 1 research resource asteroid mines along the way), and I've gone through at least 20-30 techs on the web so far, and built a couple dozen hydroponic orbitals. I know it drops as you earn more RP, but it's nowhere near as steep as being halved every 2000 RP.

Edit: I have 31 total research pressure I can find, all concentrated on my homeworld with 3 megacities, generating 3 RP/s on that one planet, then I have the attitude adding +1 base research gen, and I'm converting my excess budget to research, for a total 5.2 RP/s. I have 62 techs already researched at 3 hours into the game, and my research speed is barely slowing down at all.
Last edited by Astasia; Feb 14 @ 5:18pm
No, I mean 2000 RP:

double get_ResearchEfficiency() { return 2000.0 / (2000.0 + totalGenerated); }

Generating 0 RP gives you an efficiency of 1, or 100%. Generating 2000 will give you 0.5, which is 50%. Generating 4000 will give you 0.33, which is... 33%, so my initial statement was not entirely accurate. Generating 6000 gives you 0.25, generating 8000 gives you 0.2, etc.

That being said, unless your empire is extremely stagnant, your growing budget and infrastructure will undoubtedly help offset the slowdown - that may be what you're seeing here.

EDIT: You can actually make a rough estimate on how low your efficiency has become, just from the homeworld figures you provided:

(31 pressure * 1.6 modifier from the megacities, possibly reduced if you have the high-density research buildings - quite possible at this amount of pressure) + (4 from the labs) + (let's be generous and say 4 from the phasite) = 57.6 RP/s.

(output generation of 3 RP/s) / (base generation of 57.6 RP/s) = 0.05208333(...).

Your efficiency is somewhere around 5% - accounting for variation in civilian effectiveness and population size, I'd say you're definitely in the 7.5%-5% range. If you're managing to maintain a steady research rate for so long, you've been doing a lot more to improve your base generation than you believe.
Last edited by Dalo Lorn; Feb 15 @ 3:14am
this means the trait : "rigid" is actually really bad, you're basically kicking yourself in the foot, unless the game is very short
Mmmm, secondary unlocks still trigger a research penalty equal to the research required for the tech's primary unlock. But yes.
Originally posted by Dalo Lorn:
Mmmm, secondary unlocks still trigger a research penalty equal to the research required for the tech's primary unlock. But yes.
ha so that's not as awful as I thought
Astasia Feb 15 @ 3:15pm 
Originally posted by Dalo Lorn:
double get_ResearchEfficiency() { return 2000.0 / (2000.0 + totalGenerated); }

Ah, ok that makes sense. So if I'm at like 48k generated and only getting 4% of my current research gen, going up 2000 more is only going to drop me to 3.8%, and by that point a growing budget is making up that tiny difference. Then it slows even more, so by the time you hit 200k research points generated you are still earning 1%, if you get a solid research planet going you can still easily be earning several RP/s at that point, and it wont be until 400k generated that the rate is halved again to 0.5%.

Basically it's something that gives you a big research boost early game then sharply drops off and stops being noticeable later as you start to establish specialized planets.
I guess that's one way to look at it.
wait, your formula take total generated into account
but .... isn't the penalty from secondary unlocks missing from the formulae ?
but maybe you did it to simplify ?
Originally posted by DBH*Whismerhill*{SSgt}:
wait, your formula take total generated into account
but .... isn't the penalty from secondary unlocks missing from the formulae ?
but maybe you did it to simplify ?

The penalty is added to totalGenerated. This isn't 'my formula', it's a function straight from scripts/server/components/ResearchGrid.as.
ok ok I didn't mean it that way, I was just referring to your posts & whatnot :)

thanks for all the information, really helpful :)
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