Brigador

Brigador

Brigador > General Discussions > Topic Details
SIDWULF Feb 9, 2016 @ 5:55pm
Buy this game now
Cause it's freaking AMAZING

Also I will leave this here, an inspiring quote from the developers explaining why their game is $20 and not $15.

"We have spent 5 years making Brigador, if you include when we started building the engine.

5 years.

Much of that has been working full time, 6-7 days a week, 8+ hours a day. Even at a very conservative estimate that's over 10,000 hours of work per person, and there are 4 of us. We did not do a kickstarter, we do not have a publisher. We have funded this entire project out of pocket.

Here is a list of things that also take about 5 years to do:
get a PhD
get married and have two children
earn $72,000 at the US minimum wage (pre-tax)
win the election and serve a term as President of the United States
fight World War I
develop from an embryo into a person who can speak in complete sentences
fail to qualify for the Olympics, twice
start drinking too much and gain 20lbs because of stress from starting a company and building a game for 5 years
watch all 262 episodes of Two and a Half Men (we do not endorse doing this)

Brigador was made almost entirely from scratch, and when it ships will contain 2 hours of original music (small sample[soundcloud.com]), over 100 different enemy units (spoilers[i.imgur.com]), a story campaign, a free play mode, and a playable landmass of ~2 mi² (split between 20 maps) -- roughly the size of downtown Chicago or the urban area in GTA III -- hand detailed all the way down to street lamps, trash cans, stop signs, etc. I took some time to render out two of the maps in their entirety at game resolution so that you can look around for yourselves:
(heads up, each image is ~10 mbs)
St. Martim's Commercial Spaceport[i.imgur.com]
The Sintra Necropolis[i.imgur.com] (had to be slightly downscaled to fit on imgur)

For this we kindly ask that you pay $20.

As a reference point, here is a list of things that cost more than $20:
a toilet plunger[www.amazon.com]
a 30-pack of Bud Light[www.liquors44.com]
a trash can[www.amazon.com]
this single article of Calvin Klein men's underwear[www.amazon.com]
a fruitcake no one will ever eat[www.amazon.com]
the Point Break remake Blu-ray[www.amazon.com]
a calendar[www.amazon.com]
this Nickelback poster[www.amazon.com]

It's bad enough there's a Nickelback poster worth more than the game we've spent the last 5 years building, worse still to have people come along and announce that in fact our game is only worth about as much as this other more common Nickelback poster[www.amazon.com]. I hope you can understand the frustration this inspires.

$20 a copy, once you factor in Valve's take and taxes, gets cut down to about $10 a copy (we live in Illinois which has the highest state income tax rate[wallethub.com] in the US at 5%). Pretending we don't have to pay contractors or have any other development related expenses, to pay ourselves minimum wage for the time we've put in requires selling 25,000 copies of Brigador. Factoring in contractors and any kind of reasonable living and that number jumps up to ~50,000 copies. While not unheard of, that's already getting into long-shot territory, especially for a new company that has no pre-existing ties to games media or the backing of a publisher. And people's reticence to pay what amounts to a pint of beer more for the game means adding another 33% or 16,000 copies to see the same results. That increase alone amounts to more units than many independent releases ever sell.

We're not asking for pity or charity, nor are we saying you should buy a game just because people worked hard on it-- it's possible to struggle valiantly and still make poo. But quality, depth, innovation all require time, and projects of this scope demand full-time work. If Brigador is not worth $20 to you, that's fine, by all means wait until it goes on sale. But understand that you're making an already extremely difficult job that much harder. Brigador took so long to make because we wanted to take a risk on building something unique rather than just reskinning an existing game. We wrote an engine from scratch so that we could create fully destructible environments and still have good control over performance. Iterating on design, creating something even only partially new takes a tremendous amount of time, and if people are unwilling to pay a price commensurate with the labor involved in creating games like this then fewer people will take those risks, and many of the ones who do will get starved out the industry.

At the end of the day we all have to eat. So yeah, we think it's worth $20. Hope that clears things up."
Last edited by SIDWULF; Apr 27, 2016 @ 8:23pm
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Showing 1-15 of 190 comments
Boss Tweed  [developer] Feb 10, 2016 @ 11:14pm 
Ok.
M3chaMike Feb 18, 2016 @ 9:21pm 
The Developers believe that the game is worth $20, and from what I've seen, and the direction they're going, it's worth it.

Besides that, $20 is already less than half the price of most brand-new games. Demanding less is stupid and extremely disrespectful.
dak Feb 21, 2016 @ 8:16am 
Bought 1 copy for myself for 20EUR and buying one for a friend right now, just to fill the gap :P
Boss Tweed  [developer] Feb 21, 2016 @ 2:57pm 
Originally posted by dak:
Bought 1 copy for myself for 20EUR and buying one for a friend right now, just to fill the gap :P


https://media.giphy.com/media/2t9sDPrlvFpdK/giphy.gif
Last edited by Boss Tweed; Feb 21, 2016 @ 2:57pm
dak Feb 21, 2016 @ 5:51pm 
Originally posted by Boss Tweed:
Originally posted by dak:
Bought 1 copy for myself for 20EUR and buying one for a friend right now, just to fill the gap :P


https://media.giphy.com/media/2t9sDPrlvFpdK/giphy.gif

Haha, yeah! :) I can recall myself being like this after playing for the first few hours.
SIDWULF Feb 21, 2016 @ 5:56pm 
The price is great
Last edited by SIDWULF; Feb 23, 2016 @ 9:29am
SystemDarkness Feb 21, 2016 @ 6:47pm 
Originally posted by SIDWULF:
You still havent changed the price? wtf?
http://giphy.com/gifs/really-seriously-not-again-d9YpHmnGFp1ny
ɥƃᴉzɐɯ∀ Feb 21, 2016 @ 8:27pm 
Originally posted by SIDWULF:
You still havent changed the price? wtf?
I'd hope that this is a troll, but it's seeming rather unlikely at this point.
SIDWULF Feb 21, 2016 @ 10:11pm 
$20 is perfect
Last edited by SIDWULF; Feb 23, 2016 @ 9:29am
dak Feb 21, 2016 @ 11:02pm 
Originally posted by SIDWULF:
...$20 is too much
$15 is perfect for this game.
Uncovering of some underlying basis for such conclusions may possibly allow for some dialogue to arise. :D Maybe.
SystemDarkness Feb 22, 2016 @ 3:08am 
Originally posted by dak:
Originally posted by SIDWULF:
...$20 is too much
$15 is perfect for this game.
Uncovering of some underlying basis for such conclusions may possibly allow for some dialogue to arise. :D Maybe.
it astounds me
a Brand new game would cost me 60 dollars, if i went to my local store
Renting used to be a cheaper way to play a game for a while, it would be 10-15 dollars?
Hell if I want to compare today, redbox is like 2 dollars a night?
then used games were cheaper and depending on how old they were it would range
and i just bought it
it astounds me now , 99 percent pc gaming that
someone would say this game is worth 15 dollars when I think completed would be worth 50
thats how much Mechwarrior was on the Snes
and mind you, I'm 21
now I can be snappy and say how dare OP price this on his assumption? and say I hope whatever establishment they work for starts paying them Five dollars less because who are you to put price on someone's hard work?
but I won't
I say for 20 dollars this blows me away
the quality of the game is astounding, even in this state
and if you want to argue that it is in early acess and should be at a lower price
I like the higher price point because it bars people like OP who expect this to be some low fi indie game and people who buy it now want a quality product and will give feed back and ensure it will get to that quality, people who wait will also get that quality product
there as civil as I can be

Rootseven Feb 22, 2016 @ 1:45pm 
£10 sounds about right, it's a work in progress and as talented as the devs are, as quality as the product is (or will be), people will pay what they think it's worth.
I love mechs, I love destruction. I would get this game if it was slighty cheaper just now, but I might wait until a price drop after full release (or if the finished product really gives me something to salivate over).
dak Feb 22, 2016 @ 4:40pm 
Originally posted by Das Malefitz:
...I say for 20 dollars this blows me away
the quality of the game is astounding, even in this state...

Very much argree. Nevertheless, this kind of assumptions and price "corrections" based on plain assumptions are to be met almost everywhere. One could look at this like on a balancing game - ones are creating and putting time, effort and not at the last place - a part of the soul into the work. And others' role is to balance the stuff - proudly throw assumptions while
intimidating with not being a customer, if the conditions are not met. I have to take my own decision in my own practice with this kind of potential clients and the answer is an advise to look for a better person to execute the job, so both parts are satisfied. Confronting a blatant understatement of the order price is actually not the work I am paid for :)


Originally posted by Rootseven:
£10 sounds about right, it's a work in progress and as talented as the devs are, as quality as the product is (or will be), people will pay what they think it's worth.

Sounds? :) But here, would you mind me rephrase a you a little: people will pay the price or not, taking a decision if it worth for them.
Does it sound right?
Last edited by dak; Feb 22, 2016 @ 4:47pm
Boss Tweed  [developer] Feb 23, 2016 @ 6:22am 
Originally posted by SIDWULF:
Change the price man, $20 is too much

$15 is perfect for this game.
Originally posted by Rootseven:
£10 sounds about right, it's a work in progress and as talented as the devs are, as quality as the product is (or will be), people will pay what they think it's worth.
I love mechs, I love destruction. I would get this game if it was slighty cheaper just now, but I might wait until a price drop after full release (or if the finished product really gives me something to salivate over).

We have spent 5 years making Brigador, if you include when we started building the engine.

5 years.

Much of that has been working full time, 6-7 days a week, 8+ hours a day. Even at a very conservative estimate that's over 10,000 hours of work per person, and there are 4 of us. We did not do a kickstarter, we do not have a publisher. We have funded this entire project out of pocket.

Here is a list of things that also take about 5 years to do:
  • get a PhD
  • get married and have two children
  • earn $72,000 at the US minimum wage (pre-tax)
  • win the election and serve a term as President of the United States
  • fight World War I
  • develop from an embryo into a person who can speak in complete sentences
  • fail to qualify for the Olympics, twice
  • start drinking too much and gain 20lbs because of stress from starting a company and building a game for 5 years
  • watch all 262 episodes of Two and a Half Men (we do not endorse doing this)

Brigador was made almost entirely from scratch, and when it ships will contain 2 hours of original music (small sample[soundcloud.com]), over 100 different enemy units (spoilers[i.imgur.com]), a story campaign, a free play mode, and a playable landmass of ~2 mi² (split between 20 maps) -- roughly the size of downtown Chicago or the urban area in GTA III -- hand detailed all the way down to street lamps, trash cans, stop signs, etc. I took some time to render out two of the maps in their entirety at game resolution so that you can look around for yourselves:
(heads up, each image is ~10 mbs)
St. Martim's Commercial Spaceport[i.imgur.com]
The Sintra Necropolis[i.imgur.com] (had to be slightly downscaled to fit on imgur)

For this we kindly ask that you pay $20.

As a reference point, here is a list of things that cost more than $20:

It's bad enough there's a Nickelback poster worth more than the game we've spent the last 5 years building, worse still to have people come along and announce that in fact our game is only worth about as much as this other more common Nickelback poster[www.amazon.com]. I hope you can understand the frustration this inspires.

$20 a copy, once you factor in Valve's take and taxes, gets cut down to about $10 a copy (we live in Illinois which has the highest state income tax rate[wallethub.com] in the US at 5%). Pretending we don't have to pay contractors or have any other development related expenses, to pay ourselves minimum wage for the time we've put in requires selling 25,000 copies of Brigador. Factoring in contractors and any kind of reasonable living and that number jumps up to ~50,000 copies. While not unheard of, that's already getting into long-shot territory, especially for a new company that has no pre-existing ties to games media or the backing of a publisher. And people's reticence to pay what amounts to a pint of beer more for the game means adding another 33% or 16,000 copies to see the same results. That increase alone amounts to more units than many independent releases ever sell.

We're not asking for pity or charity, nor are we saying you should buy a game just because people worked hard on it-- it's possible to struggle valiantly and still make poo. But quality, depth, innovation all require time, and projects of this scope demand full-time work. If Brigador is not worth $20 to you, that's fine, by all means wait until it goes on sale. But understand that you're making an already extremely difficult job that much harder. Brigador took so long to make because we wanted to take a risk on building something unique rather than just reskinning an existing game. We wrote an engine from scratch so that we could create fully destructible environments and still have good control over performance. Iterating on design, creating something even only partially new takes a tremendous amount of time, and if people are unwilling to pay a price commensurate with the labor involved in creating games like this then fewer people will take those risks, and many of the ones who do will get starved out the industry.

At the end of the day we all have to eat. So yeah, we think it's worth $20. Hope that clears things up.
Last edited by Boss Tweed; Feb 23, 2016 @ 8:45am
SystemDarkness Feb 23, 2016 @ 8:24am 
Originally posted by Boss Tweed:
So yeah, we think it's worth $20. Hope that clears things up.
You tottaly Didn't have to explain yourselves
But thank you, Keep on working hard because there is no games quite like this anymore
and I know this is the game you guys wanted to make but I know this is your life and you deserve to be able to make a living off this work , so down the line, you can make more games
that you want to create

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Brigador > General Discussions > Topic Details