Jets'n'Guns Gold

Jets'n'Guns Gold

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undead  [developer] Mar 3, 2014 @ 3:20pm
Game balance
Thanks to everyone for the feedback so far! It's very helpful.

I want to start this discussion, because I'm considering some game balance tweaks for the next update and I want to gather all the suggestions on one place.

If you are experienced JnG player and if you have any suggestions about price and power of weapons, durability of bosses, difficulty of certain levels etc. you can let me know in a comment below. Please don't be shy to suggest specific changes (like "raise the price of the weapon by 500k", "raise the HP of the boss by 20%", etc.)

You can also support other people's suggestions, and increase the chance they make it into the update (no promises).

Important note: We don't want to lower the overall difficulty of the game. But if anything is seriously off, we may fix it.
Last edited by undead; Mar 3, 2014 @ 3:21pm
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Showing 1-15 of 138 comments
script kitty Mar 3, 2014 @ 4:11pm 
Oh my god, it's actually happening. A balance thread. I love you so much.

(EDIT: I know you guys aren't very good at English. I'm Polish myself, so I know how hard it is to learn and master English when your first language is one of the Slavic ones. So I made a TL;DR image version of this post, where I try to show - instead of telling - what's wrong with the SpaceHog: http://www.anonmgur.com/up/a69153e4e0c49607ec95c10814b2fc17.jpg )

Here's something to start with, I just made a post complaining about the SpaceHog in another topic. I'll move that post here:

By the way, is the SpaceHog intended not to have Nanomachine upgrades and some other things missing from the "Devices" section? I mean, I know it was rushed or incomplete, because I remember that you guys patched that ship in sometime after the release of JnG Gold. But can you please fix the ship and make it not useless? Or maybe even make it a clear upgrade over the Atomic Emu and the Coffinator. To give the players something cool to look forward to for clearing the game three times, maybe.

Here, I'll make a list of problems to make things easier:
- the hull integrity upgrade only has 3 levels, which makes its total health with all upgrades lower than that of the Coffinator and only slightly higher than that of the Atomic Emu
- the power shield has 4 levels, even though there are only 3 working levels in the game
- nanomachines are missing
- boss detector is missing
- Magneto GraviPad is missing

- the ship doesn't even have a description (not that anyone reads them, but still)

Overall: right now, the SpaceHog is objectively worse than the TMiG-310 in almost every respect. It has the same amount of weapon slots but marginally better stats, higher price and lacks some devices.

The SpaceHog is a final reward for playing the game, so it's not a big deal that it sucks, but it absolutely needs something that makes it worth buying - either even more weapon slots, better stats, or both. I think the nerds who actually want to get the "Legendary" achievement or just want to beat the game more than 3 times on one save deserve a better ship for the remaining 7 or so finishes.
Last edited by script kitty; Mar 3, 2014 @ 4:55pm
I think the final upgrade price for discoquette bombs is a little much. its like 1.2 mil for the final upgrade but it sure doesn't get you 1.2 mil worth of bombing performance.

I wish that more of the bombs/missle and weapons had higher levels to upgrade into to try and make them more viable.

My pattern for playthroughs pretty much doesn't change because the game itself can be difficult to beat even at the lowest difficulty until you get good ships/upgrades. I start on the lowest difficulty, buy a daisy cutter and pink panther. Upgrade them both a few time and then I use those two guns primarily. Once I unlock SWARM I switch to that and try to get as many of those as possible and usually the game for me turns into hold down the fire button while flying around enemy bullets/obstacles. Pick up the Omni weapon, combine with swarms and just farm money for better ship upgrades.

In any case, I guess I always felt that weapons like Daisy Cutter and Pink Panther really seemed nicely balanced. Like a fully maxxed cutter and panther compliment each other nicely. It would be nice if more of the weapons did the same, or maybe if even guns like Daisy Cutter and Pink panther could be uprades even further. Like once you reach a certain point it starts costing 1+ mil per gun upgrade but the guns become a little more viable into the later game.

Just some thoughts. Sometimes it feels like some weapons are useless compared to others that do similar or better jobs. Oh an it'd be nice if the goober were a little more upgradable. Usually I jump to the wanderwurst quickly just for the heat capacity. It'd be nice if the goober were viable and upgradable even beyond picking up the t-mig. obviously not as powerful a the t-mig, just with some of those nice upgrades. like level 1 shields, nanos, a magnet grav pad, etc.
Honorable_D Mar 3, 2014 @ 7:47pm 
The guide put together by dis.astranagent is about the best feedback you could get concerning the weapons: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=232817801

Reading through that you'll get a good idea what weapons are just too expensive for the damage they do and either need to be lowered in price or have their damage buffed. The guide also points out which weapons are bugged... such as Incubus missiles doing LESS damage on their final upgrade.

I may make another post concerning some of the grossly underpowered/overpriced/overpowered weapons later on.

TERROR INSTINCT Mar 3, 2014 @ 9:22pm 
There's a fairly steady curve on weapons util they break about 700k total cost and then they just flatline on damage for almost the entire game no matter how high the costs get jacked up.

It's hard to comment on what weapons are strong when nearly every weapon is weak. Things like the Manic Miner only stand out because nothing around them improves over the very first machine gun. Then you finally get some better things in the endgame and you have no point of reference for anything.
Nomine Mar 4, 2014 @ 1:52am 
remove the 10x playthrough achievement altogether. seriously. i dont know if i can do it more than 5 times... would be too repetitive. (also the 100 mil score)
Last edited by Nomine; Mar 4, 2014 @ 1:53am
script kitty Mar 4, 2014 @ 5:52am 
Originally posted by Nomine:
remove the 10x playthrough achievement altogether. seriously. i dont know if i can do it more than 5 times... would be too repetitive. (also the 100 mil score)
But that's just an achievement, not something in the game that needs balancing.

Anyway, which way should we go? Do we want to nerf the ManicMiner and make the game as hard as intended (to my knowledge, you were supposed to have insufficient firepower to fight the Beer cubes)? Or should we suggest buffing 90% of the weapons to match ManicMiner's power, and in turn having a good chance to clear out most of the levels on the very first playthrough?

There's also the problem with piercing/multihit weapons outclassing all conventional ones. Once you go Chroniton Rifle / VX / Tsunami / Hexagun, there is no reason for you to try out stuff like Kaizer Franz's, Belzebubs, Zion Generators, or Terrion Emitters. I believe this needs to be fixed. There are many endgame guns that simply aren't useful - mostly because their bullets only hit one target at a time and/or do insufficient damage.

So, once again, where do we go from there - do we suggest nerfs to piercing weapons, or massively buff the projectile weapons?
TERROR INSTINCT Mar 4, 2014 @ 6:07am 
You have no reason to try the Kaiser Franz or the Beelzebub because they're weaker than the ManicMiner (which isn't actually that much stronger than other weapons available when you get it) while costing ridiculous amounts of money. The endgame piercing weapons aren't just stronger because they pierce, they're just flat stronger than everything else available even if you took that away from them (with possible exception of the hexagun). No one uses the terrion emitter because it's♥♥♥♥♥♥weak while demanding you get right up close to things, no one uses the Zion Generator because it's the second most expensive gun in the first lap, has the third worst heat generation and does less dps of a laundry list of other guns available before it while being a machine gun with nothing else going for it.
PE4 Mar 4, 2014 @ 9:06am 
Just make something about "the race"... :p
matthew Mar 4, 2014 @ 9:36am 
Originally posted by PE4:
Just make something about "the race"... :p

an option to skip it would be nice, it gets REALLY hard by the time you do the game for the forth time and higher, I utterly HATE that level with a passion, OK on normal and maybe hard, but it really gets annoying, and is a real turn off, once you done it a couple of times, a skip option would be nice.
script kitty Mar 5, 2014 @ 5:26am 
Originally posted by matthew:
Originally posted by PE4:
Just make something about "the race"... :p

an option to skip it would be nice, it gets REALLY hard by the time you do the game for the forth time and higher, I utterly HATE that level with a passion, OK on normal and maybe hard, but it really gets annoying, and is a real turn off, once you done it a couple of times, a skip option would be nice.
I don't know. I breeze through that level every time now, so it can't be that hard.
Maybe an option to pay (50,000 * [difficulty level<5], where easy=1, normal=2, hard=3, nightmare=4 and so on)Z to skip the race would be okay. You punish yourself for doing that, but it's not a horribly high price to pay. You get about 100,000Z for finishing the race on Nightmare, so you don't lose that much money by not attempting the race. It would be a 300,000Z net loss in total on Nightmare and higher difficulties.

Originally posted by dis.astranagant:
You have no reason to try the Kaiser Franz or the Beelzebub because they're weaker than the ManicMiner (which isn't actually that much stronger than other weapons available when you get it) while costing ridiculous amounts of money. The endgame piercing weapons aren't just stronger because they pierce, they're just flat stronger than everything else available even if you took that away from them (with possible exception of the hexagun). No one uses the terrion emitter because it's♥♥♥♥♥♥weak while demanding you get right up close to things, no one uses the Zion Generator because it's the second most expensive gun in the first lap, has the third worst heat generation and does less dps of a laundry list of other guns available before it while being a machine gun with nothing else going for it.
You are right. And I think all that needs to be fixed. Thanks so much for listing weapon stats btw, that helps a great deal.

I mean, I am currently making a large list of changes to the weapon balance. I wonder, is anyone else doing the same, or interested in making such a list? My philosophy is this:

- All the weapons should be useful and their potential damage proportional to the price and heat, and inversely proportional to ease of usage - for example, the Banzai Rammer probably needs a large damage boost to compensate for it being so slow to follow you, and it also needs to be scaled up a bit to match the price tag.

- The secret weapons, even the joke ones, should probably work a bit like the Chroniton Rifle used to in the vanilla Jets'n'Guns: since they are unique per playthrough, they should offer phenomenal firepower on higher levels, better than anything available at the time, but also be extremely expensive to upgrade (the original Chroniton Rifle also cost 10 million Z in total to fully upgrade, just like it currently does, but it was given to you for free, you did not have to pay 4 million Z just for the first level).

- ALL the weapons after the Beer level need to be more powerful than the Manic Miner.

- Piercing weapons are horribly overpowered and don't deserve buffs.

- Mortars, miniguns and other weapons that fire projectiles should stay relevant and need extreme buffs to do so.

- Chroniton Riffle has a mission dedicated just to getting it and has a gray "X" on the weapon picture when you view it after purchasing it, so it needs to be special, like in the old game.

- The weapons you get in the second loop are all more powerful than most everything you could get on the first loop, and that's okay, but they need to be made much less accessible. Maybe even make them so expensive, you can only get them on the third loop, or something, so that the "regular" guns from the previous playthrough can stay viable for a little longer.

- Armageddonator is too weak for a final weapon. It should at least be on par with a single VX-Quattro, which it isn't.

- Omnigun used to wreck faces and was nerfed to hell. Let's not make the same mistake again.

Does that sound good? I'm far from done, I'm currently on the Glutosian Capital level. Right now the projectile weapons on my list have grossly inflated damage. Kaiser Franz currently does more damage than the Hydra Machine Gun, but I think it might be okay, because the Hydra, even when upgraded, is not very powerful at all. S.T.Y.X is getting no buffs whatsoever.

That might sound good on paper, but I'm only now starting to understand why the game is not balanced. It's not an easy thing to do. I wish there was a way to preview the changes you'd like to suggest. I'm testing all the weapons on the Grooman Goblin, but you need to think of ships with better cooling systems available at the time, and their combined price. I'm only modifying the damage, but maybe changes to shot speed, heat generation, shot frequency, and, last but not least, price would sometimes be more called for.

I think the prices should mostly be left intact, they seem pretty well-adjusted, at least for the first loop. Let's say the average amount of points earned on the first playthrough is 10,000,000Z, and use best.txt to try to extrapolate the average amount of money available on specific missions, and what one can buy using that money.
TERROR INSTINCT Mar 5, 2014 @ 9:36am 
Eh, I think you're jumping to conclusions that can't really be supported. Not every piercing weapon is all that strong, especially the VX-MB (one of the hottest guns of its time, very thin aoe and damage on par with the daisy cutter for a fortune more) and the S.T.Y.X., which only looks strong because it's one of the first guns to do more than 30k dps but it pays it back in heat and range.
I think what would greatly improve the enjoyability of this game would be warning sign of some sort when an enemy is about to spawn from behind you. The game deliberately attacks you with near-insta-death ships from behind and it can get extremely frustrating at times.
What I somewhat also don't like is how as you need to pay a LOT for the TMIG throughout the game, you can't really use it despite freeing it from the lab until up to about the last 4 levels, because you need all those resources in weapon power.

Also, I think a bit too many weapons get unlocked in one batch at the end of the game, and there isn't really a reason to use any of them except for the best one (Hexagun).
Last edited by Zhuinden (人^▽')~; Mar 5, 2014 @ 10:49am
Deathman.Kenshi Mar 5, 2014 @ 1:03pm 
Never used S.T.Y.X. VX-MB was more for me :)
Than I tryed Disruptor and blazed trough game until I got Chronitron [and than never used non piercing gun ever again, not counting misiles/bombs]
Than come Hexa gun and all other weapons become obsolete insantly cause it was VX but with huge AoE
Also Tsunami-Beta its hilariously OP as it seems it increases dmg the closer enemies got to you and provides you with almost total immunity to misiles/projectiles which can be shot down whilist you can run one tsunami beta and one hexagun on one maxed cooler without problem whilist constantly regenerating making most shots which hit you do 0 dmg anyway

Game is challenging on begining because most guns are UP or plainly useless at low levels and by time you have enough to upgrade them you can just buy something much more powerfull with pierce/guide/aoe making all of that previous weapons obsolete

For weapons
Every weapon should have max level listed or even better have the SAME number of upgrades
There should be more companion type weapons, also they should be invicible or force respawnable if you can have more than one [if you loose gundrone on bottom you cant respawn it unless you crash top one against enemy and vice versa], also they should create heat as well [also I miss classic "nose" companion]
There is one of place you can create some variety [misile/bomb/troop/cooling/shielding etc.. companions]
Bombs become useless later one and I kept forgeting to even use them, not like in some other games where they were usually used to break trough some hard or massed enemies or to force trough areas with weaker guns but tacticaly used concentrated firepower or could be later changed for powerfull companion ships in the same slots

For levels
Special ship levels whilist fun for 1st time are getting boring in next playtroughs as they all melt down to just sell anything and put most powerfull gun you can at front

Race level - well near 0 reward, rather frustrating, sometimes I feel that plane hitbox is bigger than graphics option to skip it would be welcome
[tyrian contanied few similar levels, 1st of them was Mines which still had awesome monetary rewards if you dared to go trough harder route and usually moving obstacles was on harder route and static on less rewarding "easy" one, than there were Mines 2 in next chapter where it was also heavily mined, contained turrets, tons of enemies but also less indestructible obstacles making it awesome confined battlespace, and than there were few shorter pasages in some of the levels and one or two secret levels]

Secret levels - too few

Bosses - 1st time kinda OK not too hard but not too easy
2nd time and on - instagibbed by hitscan weapons so far I seen they should get serious HP increases :)

Ships - more variety, I mean not just different slots but some special abilites tied to one ship like weapon overcharge, repeling bulets, fire storms, airstrikes, wingmans, stealth etc...
[gunship, corvete, weapon platform, command ship, interceptor, covert ops etc...]

I think one of reasons this topic was created was also to gain some inspiration for potentional sequel or DLC :)
As this specific type of shooter is my favorite and I played TONS of them I can give tons of dieas if this is desired :)
Last edited by Deathman.Kenshi; Mar 5, 2014 @ 1:06pm
script kitty Mar 5, 2014 @ 3:29pm 
Originally posted by dis.astranagant:
Eh, I think you're jumping to conclusions that can't really be supported. Not every piercing weapon is all that strong, especially the VX-MB (one of the hottest guns of its time, very thin aoe and damage on par with the daisy cutter for a fortune more) and the S.T.Y.X., which only looks strong because it's one of the first guns to do more than 30k dps but it pays it back in heat and range.
Well yeah. VX Masterblaster is pretty weak. S.T.Y.X is just adequate. Chroniton Riffle is weaker than expected for its price of 10,000,000Z. VX-Quattro and both Tsunami Generators, on the other hand...

Originally posted by Zhuinden:
I think what would greatly improve the enjoyability of this game would be warning sign of some sort when an enemy is about to spawn from behind you. The game deliberately attacks you with near-insta-death ships from behind and it can get extremely frustrating at times.
I know this is not a balance-related post, but... this.

--------

I'm done compiling the list of proposed changes to weapons. But in the meantime...

The Jetpack Rescue System is almost completely useless and therefore nobody buys it. I wonder, would it be possible to make the jetpack miniguns' damage scalable to the DPS of the weapons you had equipped at the time of your ship's destruction? That way you could actually keep fighting after losing your ship and hope to get through the level. I don't even remember how much health the jetpack has (because I just restart when my ship gets destroyed), but you could make its health extremely low so that the player dies in just one or two hits from anything. That would make it very interesting for people who seek challenge in games, or are very good at dodging bullets.

The Time Compressor is overpowered / a way for bad players to beat levels without having to resort to cheating or getting better weapons. I think it needs to generate lots of heat for being used. Like, 10000 heat for one push of a button, which is enough to overwhelm most of the cooling systems available in the game, and force the players to only use the compressor purely defensively. Then you could, for example, add five upgrade levels to the compressor, each reducing the heat per use by 2000 and costing something like 400,000Z, so that the slowdown can still be spammed with impunity, but only if you pay through the nose.
Honorable_D Mar 6, 2014 @ 6:24pm 
Long post incoming:

Autotrack Minigun: Increase projectile velocity 20%. Increase dmg 5-10%

Daisycutter Mk.III: Lvl 6 upgrade does less dmg than the one before it. Lvl 6 and lvl 7 generate less heat than lvls 4 and 5. Bugs?

La Fontaine: Lower stream does more damage than top stream? Bug? Damage is fine because its the cheapest weapon in the game.

Pink Panther Mk.II: Bug causes it to do less dmg on lvl 5? Loses a barrel. Could do with a small 5% dmg increase.

Scorpio Plasma Gun: Very flawed weapon. Needs a massive 25-30% dmg boost or less of a damage boost but let the projectiles pierce enemies. Lvl 3 upgrade seems to generate disproportionate heat.

Incubus: Lower price by 15% or increase dmg by 10%. Lvl 5 upgrade does LESS dmg than lvl 4... bug.

Radiator Mk.III: Weapons seems fine for the most part. Could use a small 5% dmg boost if feeling generous.

Rodeo: Main use is to block projectiles? Could use an increase in rate of fire and a 5-10% price reduction.

Pulse Gun: For that amount of heat it really needs to do a bit more damage. 10% dmg increase.

Homing Missiles: Fine for the most part. 5% dmg boost?

Flea Circus missiles: Could use a small price reduction.

Tornado Railgun: Nice weapon for the most part.

Phoenix missiles: Really needs a price reduction of 20% or so since its a 'utility' weapon and is already used VERY rarely if ever by most players...

Acid Gun: Decent weapon.

Tectonic Laser: Very similar to Acid Gun... NEEDS something to set it apart aside from just more damage. Not sure what, though... its pretty terrible as is.

Skywalker Hypergun: Again for that heat it needs a damage boost. 15-20%. These 'blaster' weapons are all about high damage and high heat, right?

Superkiller Mk.I: Basically Daisy Cutter with different fire arc. Can't say much.

Tomator Deluxe: For the price to upgrade it, it really needs to do more damage...

J.C. Superstar 33: Way too expensive. Needs a significant price reduction. Putting its price somewhere around the 550k to 600k is reasonable.

ManicMiner: Becomes a game-breakingly good weapon when turned sideways with Rotary Cages... not sure how you guys can balance this. W/o rotary cages its pretty MEH as you don't often need to attack straight up and down so you can't lower its damage because then it'd really be crap w/o rotary cages. Perhaps remove the rotary cage, widen its attack arc a tad and grant it piercing shots.

Banjo Missiles: Submunitions don't release if the missile hits something early... can that be fixed? The missile alone does good damage but not near good enough for that price tag. If the mini-missiles could be released when the missile hits something then MAYBE it'd be worth that crazy price tag.

Charge Generator: Decent. Bit hot, though.

Boomerang Blaster: Ouch, either lower price 20-30% or increase dmg 15%ish. Not a good weapon as is - hits way to weak.

Blackfist Mortar: Heres where balance starts to go to crap. This weapon is waaay more expensive than Daisy Cutter but does even less damage when fully upgraded itself. Increase dmg 15-20% or slash its price tag. Needs a bit less heat.

Swarm: Again very expensive. Lower price tag by 15-20%.

VX-MasterBlaster Laser: I'd lower heat 10% or more. As is its only usable on Wanderwurst and then the Killer Koala when you can finally afford it. Could also use a slight price tag reduction.

Plop Fragmentation Gun: Terrible weapon by the time you can get it. Increase price and boost damage substantially.

Zombie Blues Plasma Gun: Needs a price tag slash or decent damage boost. Leaning towards price tag slash.

CHAOS Particle Generator: Needs a MASSIVE price tag slash. No one uses this weapon... ever. I'm talking like a 40% price reduction or more.

Electroball: Meh. Needs price tag drop... 20K dmg per hit just isn't enough for the price.

Hammerhead Cannon: Either boost damage 15-20% or slash the price... does barely more damage than fully upgraded Daisycutter but is over double the price.

Zion Wave Emitter: Either a 10% or so price reduction or heat reduction... perhaps both.

F-6E Plasma Gun: Damn. REDUCE HEAT especially on that final upgrade. Needs like a 50% heat reduction! Lower price 10% or more. Again, lets look at the Daisycutters 31000 DPS for 670,000 and then look at the stats of some of these later weapons...

M.S.G 5000 missiles: Decent. Could use a price reduction... its dmg to price-tag is a bit steep even for a missile.

XETEC Moongun: Lower price... reduce heat. Both around 15%. Weapon LOSES range when upgraded so it needs some sort of boost. Or pump damage 15-20%.

NTR Sandman Laser: Lower price or boost damage. Pick one. :P

S.T.Y.X.: Decent. Can't say much. Could use a 5% dmg boost for its limited range and price tag.

Beelzebub Mortar: Heavy price tag reduction is needed. Or 20% or so dmg boost.

X-Ray Disruptor: Price tag reduction. 15-20% or so.

Kraken 2000 Harpooner: Barely more dmg than Daisycutter but a lot more expensive - again a weapon with that problem. Add piercing shots or boost dmg 20% or so.

Banzai Rammer: Heavy price tag reduction is needed for such a hard to use weapon.

Kaiser Franz 650: Dear god, must have been a typo in the code when this weapon was made. NEEDS A MASSIVE PRICE TAG REDUCTION and a good damage boost. For the damage it does now it should be barely 1.2 mill to fully max... and yet its over 4 mill?!

Omnigun NT-2: Decent. Could use a slight price tag reduction to its upgrades. Like a 5-10%.

Vulcan Disintegrator: Drop price to around 2.6 mill or so and then we'll be in business.

Hexagun: Oh yes. Well, this thing is expensive but even so, it does too much dmg. Needs a 10-15% damage reduction.

Vortex Generator: Drop it to around the same price as the Hexagun. Boost dmg slightly.

SunTEQ Sunray Bozotron: With nerfed Hexagun this just miiiight be used as it is. Could use a slight heat reduction.

Chroniton Rifle: This is a post-game super weapon despite being sold earlier in the game. 10m still is ridiculous. Lower it to around 6.3 mill to max.

Terrion Emitter: Terrible. Boost damage around 30-40%. Need MUCH more damage for that crap range and price tag. LOSES DPS on lvl 3 upgrade because shots disappear... should never lose DPS when upgrading a weapon.

F-8000 Cremator: Needs a large heat reduction... I know its a flamethrower but that heat is still too much. Slight price tag reduction.

Zion Generator: Lower price to 4 mill or so too max. Ridiculous heat but thats kinda what 'energy blasters' are about - the price tag reduction should help it.

Tsunami Generator: Lower price to around 4.2 mill. It'd say boost damage too but its piercing makes it work it.

Hydra Machine Gun: Swap price with VX Quattro. Meaning lower its fully upgraded price to 5.6 mill.

VX-Quattro: Increase price to around 7.5 mill its 5.6 mill price tag is insane considering how much dmg it pumps out + its piercing shots!

La Fontaine Mk. II: Boost damage. A LOT. Like 30-40% a lot. Or add a third steam of bullets that goes straight ahead in a wave pattern.

Tsunami BETA: Good. Massive AoE damage warrants the 6.3 mill price tag. Could even be a bit more expensive.

Tesla Devastator: Lower heat by around 30% boost damage by the same amount or more. Lower price to around 8 mill.

Armageddonator: ADD A SOUND EFFECT! NEED A LASER OF DEATH TSSSSCHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! WHEN IT FIRES! Boost damage tons - hell its the final weapon of the game and the VX Quattro outdoes it in raw DPS...

Mostly buffs to stupidly expensive weapons. A few nerfs here and there. My opinion - take it as you will but don't get offended.
Last edited by Honorable_D; Mar 6, 2014 @ 6:40pm
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