Red Dragon Jun 19 @ 3:38pm
Episode 2 thoughts & feedback (includes spoilers!)
I want to open a discussion thread for players to share their thoughts and feedback about Episode 2. Of course you can comment even if you didn't beat Episode 2 yet, but be aware that all aspects of Episode 2 might be discussed here, so beware of ENDGAME SPOILERS!

Also if you can, please don't just share the things you disliked, but also things that made a positive impression on you!

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Awesome things!
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- That auto-ledge-grab option is a life-saver. Without it something like 20-30% of my total deaths are the direct result of my character not grabbing on to something even if I try to tell him to (which is completely and exponentially infuriating the more often it happens and the later in the game it happens). Too bad I didn't find the option until midway through Episode 2.

- Vine mechanics felt really good, especially how the momentum carries over into your character.

- Nice bee riding mechanics, they felt nice once I mastered them.

- The bosses are really really well made and fun to fight imo. The huge King Kong boss was quite the challenge - or maybe I'm just really thick. It took me quite a while to figure out that I had to jump on his hands as late as possible so he doesn't swat me away before I'm close enough to grab onto his shoulders.

- That second Indiana Jones rock with the three flowers? OMG Major pain and major fun, I really had a blast with that one, especially because I think I didn't take a single hit on my last (and successful) run.

- I think there are two or three secret areas I wasn't able to acess. I think one is upwards from where the boulder cuts through into the next segment (where the camera stops moving and the boulder goes through the right wall) but I assume you have to jump up there before the boulder destroys your upportunity to climb up there, which happened to me. Another secret area is surely hidden somewhere to the left of the segment where for the first time you have to deal with lots of small grey apes and vultures at the same time. But I couldn't get up there :( Anyway secret areas rule I love em.

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Unsure about...
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- Still undecided if I like the Sci-Fi part (and it's not that it doesn't play well - it does). I really liked the Donkey Kong reference, as it was still at least sort of fitting into the "sword & sorcery universe" I assumed the game to take place in. But making whole Sci-Fi stages to reference Planet of the Apes (and perhaps Contra & Metal Slug 3 if I caught that right ;) )... I dunno a subtle nod would have done the trick for me without breaking the immersion. I just really prefer the swords & sorcery setting and I enjoy bronze-ageish monsters much more as opponents than weird aliens. Kinda seriously broke the immersion for me that first time a flying saucer guy appeared in front of me. I just had that moment of disbelief and of "what the f... is going on now?!".
If I had done it I would have gone with being inside a huge monster instead - even if by now that idea is cliche. Almost all of the Sci-Fi/UFO enemies and mechanics could have worked unchanged within the context of being inside a huge undead flying dragon being inhabited by all the parasites and bees ;)

- I couldn't figure out how the bee aggro mechanic works during the whole game. If I hit a bee once all other bees for the rest of the game are aggro? That can't quite be it, can it? I was constantly surprised and unsure about both - bees attacking me as well as not attacking me.

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Bad things
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- There really isn't anything about Episode 2 that I would call bad. I thoroughly enjoyed it and felt rewarded once I mastered the hardships. The only thing that really annoys me is the ledge grab and auto-grab still feels not quite there yet. There is this sequence where you have to climb a lot of vines and chains along the bottom of the spaceship and once the camera starts moving up there are many vertical parallel chains next to each other and in this instance the ledge grab was working against me, because I just wanted to jump past them, not hold onto them... but other then that auto-ledge grab usually works just right so I am infinitely happier with it than without. Seriously I use a completely normal and functional wired 360 PC controller that performs well (or at least fine) in any other game, yet in Tind B DX without auto ledge-grab neither my analog stick not my D-pad let me grab those damn ledges and vines with any real consistency.

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Question for the Developer
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- Will you consider integrating the old Tiny Barbarian "Daughter-of-the-Frost-Giant" bit into the main game? I really liked that "prototye" game, you created a great mood and atmosphere in it, it was fun chasing after that frost babe while she was throwing spells at you. It would just be nice to be able to access it from within the new Tiny B. DX game. Or is the old Tiny Barbarian so different under the hood, that it would be a bad idea or too troublesome to implement?
Last edited by Red Dragon; Jun 19 @ 4:00pm
Showing 1-15 of 31 comments
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genysis20 Jun 20 @ 5:14am 
Checkpoints for Episode 2 were not working for me yesterday. I played for 30 minutes and when I came back the game started from the beginning. Hopefully that gets fixed or is fixed already.
Nicholas Steel Jun 20 @ 7:56am 
Bee aggro: Simply some bees in some areas will always be aggro towards you because they are angry bees and won't respawn when killed. Not all bees in the game are friendly, friendly ones can be killed infinitely and another will respawn just as friendly as the last one. Angry bees are orange instead of yellow.

I haven't gotten far in to the game but that's how I believe it works ^

I believe the old Tiny Barbarian game was made in Flash? So it would definitely take some effort to port the content. The developer has previously expressed some interest in porting it if the player base wants it (I do want it, more content is always good!).
Last edited by Nicholas Steel; Jun 20 @ 7:59am
Red Dragon Jun 20 @ 8:03am 
Originally posted by Nicholas Steel:
Bee aggro: Simply some bees in some areas will always be aggro towards you because they are angry bees and won't respawn when killed. Not all bees in the game are friendly, friendly ones can be killed infinitely and another will respawn just as friendly as the last one. Angry bees are orange instead of yellow.

I haven't gotten far in to the game but that's how I believe it works ^

I believe the old Tiny Barbarian game was made in Flash? So it would definitely take some effort to port the content. The developer has previously expressed some interest in porting it if the player base wants it (I do want it, more content is always good!).

...are you seriously saying that angry bees actually have a different color? Then either that difference is hardly noticable or I must frankly be colorblind.

The old Tiny Barbarian game would be really sweet as a 5th bonus Episode at the end or something. You could even potentially tie it together into a tragic story about how Tiny fails to save his current babe in trouble in Episode 4 leading to her death. Heartbroken he wanders the frozen waste... until he sees someone who vaguely reminds him of his gone love. (Potential spoiler alert: Maybe it is actually her, who knows? ;) )
Last edited by Red Dragon; Jun 20 @ 8:08am
Nicholas Steel Jun 20 @ 9:41am 
Originally posted by Red Dragon:
Originally posted by Nicholas Steel:
Bee aggro: Simply some bees in some areas will always be aggro towards you because they are angry bees and won't respawn when killed. Not all bees in the game are friendly, friendly ones can be killed infinitely and another will respawn just as friendly as the last one. Angry bees are orange instead of yellow.

I haven't gotten far in to the game but that's how I believe it works ^

I believe the old Tiny Barbarian game was made in Flash? So it would definitely take some effort to port the content. The developer has previously expressed some interest in porting it if the player base wants it (I do want it, more content is always good!).

...are you seriously saying that angry bees actually have a different color? Then either that difference is hardly noticable or I must frankly be colorblind. :vikinghelm::cs_sword:

The old Tiny Barbarian game would be really sweet as a 5th bonus Episode at the end or something. You could even potentially tie it together into a tragic story about how Tiny fails to save his current babe in trouble in Episode 4 leading to her death. Heartbroken he wanders the frozen waste... until he sees someone who vaguely reminds him of his gone love. (Potential spoiler alert: Maybe it is actually her, who knows? ;) )
Yeah angry bees are orangy yellow.
gsilverfish  [developer] Jun 20 @ 10:03am 
Thanks for the feedback!

Genysis, are checkpoints still not working? (I wonder if it's a connection/cloud save issue.) The first game-saving checkpoint is after the boulder chase. Just gotta make sure it's really not working before we start ripping things apart... :)

Red Dragon -- Besides what Nicholas posted (the color difference is slight!), the other thing is that if you use up too many of the respawning bees, they'll start to come out aggro as well. However, any bee can also be "tamed" if you ride it long enough, when you jump off it will be friendly (unless you hit it).

Congrats on beating the end boss! There is a "specific" way to get up there for people inclined to figure it out but determination and really good timing works too.

The old TinyB is indeed completely different under the hood (it was Game Maker, for the curious) but remaking it is something I've been thinking about!
Red Dragon Jun 20 @ 10:51am 
Originally posted by gsilverfish:
Red Dragon -- Besides what Nicholas posted (the color difference is slight!), the other thing is that if you use up too many of the respawning bees, they'll start to come out aggro as well. However, any bee can also be "tamed" if you ride it long enough, when you jump off it will be friendly (unless you hit it).

Congrats on beating the end boss! There is a "specific" way to get up there for people inclined to figure it out but determination and really good timing works too.

The old TinyB is indeed completely different under the hood (it was Game Maker, for the curious) but remaking it is something I've been thinking about!

1) Thanks for clearing up the confusion. I knew there was some complexity hidden in those bee aggro mechanics :)

2) Another way to get up the shoulders and go to town on the face of that last boss you say... it wouldn't happen to be jumping off of the edge of his palm when he swipes his open hand horizintally?! :D I noticed sometimes I'd briefly 'get stuck' with my character on the top edge of his hand without taking damage.

3) Awesome, I hope by the time Episode 4 is done you'll still find the interest to implement the old TinyB as a bonus parting gift before you launch your next surely awesome project :)

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Can I ask you a question? To what extent are the last two Episodes already planned/done?
Not in terms of how long you think they will take, obviously you can't really know that but more as in... you know... without giving away any concrete details at all or spoiling/promising anything, do you already roughly know:

- what kind of settings and environments they will take part in?
- whether you want to implement additional new game mechanics
(The muscle flexing as an attack in Episode 2 = brilliant)
- what kind of animal(s) we might be able to ride
- the rough story ark of what happens next to TinyB and his fiance?
- what kinds of enemy designs/mechanics you definitely want to include

I'm not asking to coax out any details, but it would be fun to make a new thread for the fans to just brainstorm crazy and fun stuff, but that kind of only makes sense if Episode 3 and 4 are still open for revision. If you already planned them out in much detail and know exactly what you want to do and where you want to take the last two episodes then brainstorming crazy stuff is already kind of too late because the creative process is already done :)
Last edited by Red Dragon; Jun 20 @ 10:54am
gsilverfish  [developer] Jun 20 @ 11:38am 
Yeah, I hate to ruin that kind of fun, but I do already have that pretty well figured out. I had a general idea for each episode since before I even started developing, and have been planning things out in more detail ever since.
genysis20 Jun 22 @ 3:48pm 
Well now that I finally did get to the 1st checkpoint. I would like to say 2 things. First, that was awesome. There was never any doubt about that, this game is great. Second, that's a lot of stuff to do before you reach a checkpoint. Riding bees, dodging rocks, cliff hanging. While it is a short game, I'd still rather not have to start again fromt the beginning if I have to stop the game b4 the boulder dash.
eMurai Jun 22 @ 9:55pm 
Just finished the new episode. 2:40 and 120 deaths :P
First and most important: thank you, it is very fun and I love it. Great music, great art, great controls and great level design. The new grab option is great and the challenge is spot-on once again.

Although I prefer human enemies, the animals fit the theme and will provide a great variation/break to the game when all episodes are released. The ape is a great enemy (loved the art) and so is the soldier bee (loved the attack pattern).

As the OP, I didn't like the sci-fi portion. Between the exclusively animal foes, rockets and flamethrowers I find myself thinking of Sonic more than sword and sorcery.

I loved the intro but the episode lacked a few "funny/badass" moments. Not asking to be overly silly here, just missed quirky enemies like the skeleton hands, or badass intros like when you blitzkrieg with the giant cat on the first episode. The only moment like this I can remember was when the boulder returned with the poisonous flowers attached.

I've found the checkpoints way too spaced when the game is closed. Don't see the point of playing large chunks of the levels again, specially when I'm just stucked on a boss fight.

Anyway, I'm just squeezing critics here. I really liked the episode and I hope the next ones will keep the great level. If you ask me, this game has everything to be a timeless cult classic.

ps: at the end of the spaceship level, where you just have to fall back to the jungle, I was killed in midair by something. Maybe it was a debris that was impossible to see. It was the only death that I thought was really cheap.
Last edited by eMurai; Jun 23 @ 3:06pm
blizzzilla Jun 23 @ 10:43am 
First of all the good: I loved the ape theme and the Donkey Kong part. The Völgarr reference is also pretty cool.

But, is it just me or did the difficulty skyrocket in this episode? I beat episode 1 with 0 deaths and this one took me 106 deaths on the first run. I still got rank #5 with that run though, so I can't be that bad.

Some other thoughs: I didn't enjoy the bee controls. It felt way too floaty and I was just rushing to end the screen. The acid spitting larva were also super annoying. Maybe because I absolutely can't stand larva in real life.
The auto scroller on the airship felt too rushed. It didn't feel like there was really a need to go so fast.

I also noticed two bugs:
- When I was on a bee once I took random damage. I assume there was an invisible bee. Was ok after I died.
- The final boss bugged out. He stopped attacking completely after I got up to his shoulder and evaded the first attack. I just had to keep mashing the attack button to win :/


Overall: Ape sections: yay, Bee sections: nay
bahamut66 Jun 23 @ 2:03pm 
I really enjoyed this game, Sci-fi sections included. While I was going, "Really...an ape floating...okay, whatever," the whole time, it was a nice blend. Like Final Fantasy, but with Barbarians XD Anyway, This game DID crash for me right after the bee queen, but thank god for check points. It loaded up fine a few minutes later and I beat it right after. Anyone else have crashes? It was labeled unhandled exception on mine.
blizzzilla Jun 25 @ 12:24pm 
I want to update my reactions after I watched MANvsGame's cast and played through it again.

I didn't realize that you don't have to hit the bees before you mount them. I always hit them so they would come down. The result was that every bee was angry which made some sections a bit annoying.

I still think that the bee controls are a bit too floaty and it would be more fun if the bees could walk too. I also still think that the airship auto-scroller is too fast and I don't see the need for the auto-scrolling in the last part.

The larva are a lot less annoying now that I'm used to them, but I would still love to kill those pesky enemies that shoot from the walls.

All in all I'm really happy with the episode. Getting a no-death run will be a hard challenge, but that's a good thing.

Oh, and check the VOD of MAN's cast. He found a hillarious bug in the final boss fight: http://www.twitch.tv/manvsgame/b/541305384 (skip to 6:51 / 3:14 in game time)
Red Dragon Jun 25 @ 12:30pm 
Originally posted by blizzzilla:
I still think that the bee controls are a bit too floaty and it would be more fun if the bees could walk too. I also still think that the airship auto-scroller is too fast and I don't see the need for the auto-scrolling in the last part.

I don't think it's too fast while it scrolls horizontally, but once it scrolls upwards where the bee troopers (or whatever) are I think it's a bit too fast at that point. That part is just madness.
gsilverfish  [developer] Jun 25 @ 2:47pm 
WOW. I'm glad he caught that one on video.
Nicholas Steel Jun 25 @ 3:08pm 
Originally posted by blizzzilla:
Oh, and check the VOD of MAN's cast. He found a hillarious bug in the final boss fight: http://www.twitch.tv/manvsgame/b/541305384 (skip to 6:51 / 3:14 in game time)
That's just the games music and a video of a visualizer effect to go along with it...

Edit: So you have to seek much, MUCH further in to the video then 6 minutes and 51 seconds and nothing happens at 3:14 in-game time either...
Last edited by Nicholas Steel; Jun 25 @ 3:11pm
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