Haxdax Mar 27, 2014 @ 8:41pm
Jungling
I've had experience jungling in League of Legends. The jungling system is slightly different in this game with a glyph replacing smite and a jungle specific item.

I have had an easy easy easy time with Beroth in jungle. He just mows down creeps and can pop out, grab, and stun an enemy hero. Getting an easy kill for a lane.

My problem is with Slivus. I can tell he is meant to be a lane/jungle and probably more heavy on jungle. So jungling on him should be pretty easy or at least pretty doable right?

Well I have quite a tough time jungling as Slivus to be honest. His passive works great...at night when the creeps follow you into jungle. But only the big camps have jungle right next to them. Can only tanky heros jungle?

I go into jungle with about 4 hp potions and come out barely surviving. I have so little health after jungling that I can't help any lane out. Early game Jungle Slivus is basically non existant. If my teamates do good and can keep up, late game Slivus becomes a true assassin in the jungle. Late game is the reason I play Slivus.

So the problem is being so weak coming out of jungle even with buying lots and lots of potions in early game. I even max the lifesteal ability first on him. The potion buying is holding me back from being able to buy useful items.

I love the game. Keep up the great work.
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Winterclaw42 Mar 28, 2014 @ 2:00pm 
Go to you hero settings and try giving him more base armor and see if that helps any.
Rolkfish "Oi" the Wood Imp Ostor Mar 28, 2014 @ 7:06pm 
Drengar and slag can both jungle, and they are not tanks per se. While some tankiness will be built on them, i notice the tendency to be damage items. So no, not only tanky heroes can jungle.

Keep in mind, you are not level thirty yet - at that point you'll have all your needed attribute points to give your hero extra early game power. While I have never tried slivus in jg, he could very well become more viable then. :)
Winterclaw42 Mar 29, 2014 @ 11:44am 
Right, levels.

I forgot to mention that jungling is usually pretty dependant on being a high level summoner. In LOL you pretty much need to be level 30 and have a full tier 3 rune page.
Haxdax Mar 29, 2014 @ 10:15pm 
Thanks for the responses. I will certainly try going with added armor.

The reason I wanted to ask why it is so difficult to jungle with Slivus early game is because he naturally is an assassin and his passive makes him better in jungle. I assumed he was meant to be easy to jungle with or meant for jungle mainly. Playing him in lane is as difficult since he lacks enough damage early game to fight a hero. I suppose it is Slivus' nature to be a slow start. So many S's.

Turned out pretty difficult in the beginning at least. Certainly takes a lot of practice.
Corpsefoot Apr 2, 2014 @ 4:55am 
Originally posted by Haxdax:
Thanks for the responses. I will certainly try going with added armor.

The reason I wanted to ask why it is so difficult to jungle with Slivus early game is because he naturally is an assassin and his passive makes him better in jungle. I assumed he was meant to be easy to jungle with or meant for jungle mainly. Playing him in lane is as difficult since he lacks enough damage early game to fight a hero. I suppose it is Slivus' nature to be a slow start. So many S's.

Turned out pretty difficult in the beginning at least. Certainly takes a lot of practice.

He's definitely a really slow starter before you hit 30 on your account, but keep in mind you don't have to take jungle buffs alone. If your teammates don't help you leash at least once throughout the entire game then it's not your fault if you come out of the jungle with low health. I have a friend who always leashes for me with his bruiser before returning to top lane, and it helps me save at least a third of my health bar before I move onto shaman (I start at troll, because the health regen and slow are essential on Slivus for farming jungle and securing kills early on.)

Keep in mind that this game is also way slower and more strategic to play than League, so level 2 jungler ganks are not as commonplace, especially with our scaly friend; it's not shameful to return to your base at least once before you start ganking lanes, so I usually start conscript dagger and pots with Slivus, max out my Attack Power hero stats with the remainder in cooldown reduction, Slaughter glyph the troll right when its health dips below the threshold, then generally screw around in jungle until I have enough money to go base and either buy full warrior boots if my team is willing to leash occasionally, or just buy tier one boots and the lifesteal vial (I forget its name, the 520 gold one) if I have to jungle alone.

Slivus' passive buff (make sure to aggro jungle creeps into the grass so it's permanently activated) is interesting in the sense that it's two-dimensional: when fighting jungle creeps, the attack speed and movement speed steroids mean you can kill creeps faster and travel between camps quicker, while against heroes it means you can sprint out of the jungle and take a scalp or two before they can even react properly. Think of Slivus more like Zed as opposed to Tryndamere early on: you don't yet have the attack speed to be a meaningful trader, so you have to rely on your spell synergy to maximize DPS: slowing enemies with E, Qing into them for an instant W after your first auto attack, then hopefully finishing them off with R, and Qing back out if you're diving them under a tower. All of this assuming no teammates are around to help, otherwise you usually don't have to commit this heavily into each gank unless you're paranoid that your victim might survive XD

A couple more quick points while I still have your attention: rush Blood Axe ASAP for the ridiculous life leech in jungle, ensuring that you can stop buying health pots and focus solely on mana pots and tele scrolls/wards for the consumables slots thereon out, and start picking off enemies that are overconfident in lane, or even just low on health, especially if they're teleporting home. I can't emphasize enough how devastating a single R can be to an enemy who's floating at around 250~350 HP. Your job is to clean up other people's messes, not stand around trading in lane against enemies who will probably out-range you for the entire trade. If this is the case, and the enemy hero is discouraging you from engaging them too up close, just take a few creeps for "lane tax" from your teammate's lane and return to the jungle, until you come back with enough farm to engage that same ranged hero with more DPS than the last time.

And finally, if you are just not finding any luck while jungling alone, go ahead and buy a Bulwark glyph immediately after your initial Slaughter purchase. Words cannot describe the pain and humiliation of dying by yourself against creeps in the jungle, locking you out of a large window of gold farming opportunity via creeps and ganks, and most likely consigning you to an uphill battle for the rest of the early to mid game (your sweet spot as Slivus,) if not later on. Because of this stark truth, it is generally advisable to forgo the added utility of a Blink or Haste glyph if it means you can actually stay alive long enough to take full advantage of your jungling capability (just like in League and unlike in DotA, Sins jungle creeps regenerate health if you relinquish aggro, so once you die you literally have to start all over, and you might even die again, becoming the official worst Slivus NA for the next couple of weeks.)

All in all, there is no reason a careful player cannot thrive in the jungle as Slivus, especially when allied with players who are helpful enough to leash camps and smart enough to pick up on your feasible gank requests as necessary. I may be wrong when I say this (Blair "Fyst" Fraser will probably shut me down horribly on this point) but Slivus is simply not built for late game: he has no meaningful CC to speak of, he's a melee trader with a passive that relies on actual physical location, and once the enemy team wakes up from your nightmare they'll start focusing you almost exclusively in every teamfight, resulting in you becoming essentially irrelevant in any scenario except the "teamfight cleanup phase."

If you really want me to, I can invite you to a custom game some time, and let you lane as I jungle Slivus and come in to gank your opponent as often as I can, so you can see what I mean with all the above by putting it into action. Some people just learn best that way, yours truly included ;D
Haxdax Apr 2, 2014 @ 6:40pm 
I have played more games since this post as Slivus. I have found a comforatble and succesful strategy though I wouldn't say it's perfect.

Simply put, I ignore jungle at lvl 1 and just take a lane with someone else. At lvl 2-3 I go for the kill and if I am first in the bush at lane, he can almost always get the kill. Some exceptions of course. Anyway, at lvl 4-5 I head into jungle to start jungling. Have no problem from there.

I certainly don't think he is a great strategy but it works for me. A lot of the time people don't know what a leash means and I find it not worth the trouble to jungle immediately. Yes stealing xp and gold from a teammate is bad but constanly harassing that lane afterwords makes up for it.

I certainly misspoke about Slivus late game. Slivus MID game is his best time, not late game. You are correct, he lacks proper CC for late game. But more importantly, at that time the entire enemy team will be traveling together so picking someone off is not going to happen (usually). I get targeted every team fight with stuns and silences and more stuns.

For items, I have found that Rageborn Claws are absolutely perfect for a starting item to get. The Attack Damage and Attack Speed are needed and the on hit effects are really essential to chasing a kill. On top of that, the item is something around 3700 gold and that fairly cheap compaired to other items. After that I get Onslaught Blade for heavy AD and more AS. After that it depends on the game. Usually Oblivion Axe (possibly wrong name. Axe with crit and crit damage). By then, Slivus is unstoppable 1v1 and even 1v2.

I have found life-steal to be almost a waste a money for Slivus. This is probably where most people disagree with me but it doesn't do much mid/late game. His W has enough life steal to sustain in jungle/creeps and in fights Slivus can 1v1 almost anyone (exception Serewyn many many times).

When I get close to lvl 30 I will certainly try pure jungle Slivus but until then, my method has caused me to become the carry on my team every single game. We have lost but it was due to team effort and not just my lacking.

P.S. Perhaps this thread has turned into more of a Slivus (Hero Discusion) thread. Wish I could move it.
Corpsefoot Apr 2, 2014 @ 7:02pm 
Good to see you found your stride with our legless pal, and you're right, lifesteal is generally a waste on Slivus. The only reason I buy it is because in public matches, there's no feeling like getting jumped by an invading jungler when you're low on health and your non-English-speaking teammates aren't bright enough to save your hide. It's saved me by a hair many a time in that desperate dueling scenario, which seems to happen a bit too often for my liking =\

I guess it speaks volumes about the quality of the game that we're already discussing jungler macro-meta at this stage of Early Access though, eh? =P

Originally posted by Haxdax:
P.S. Perhaps this thread has turned into more of a Slivus (Hero Discusion) thread. Wish I could move it.

Maaannyyy! Where's Manny? Tuuug!
Haxdax Apr 2, 2014 @ 7:18pm 
Originally posted by Exorcised:

I guess it speaks volumes about the quality of the game that we're already discussing jungler macro-meta at this stage of Early Access though, eh? =P

I was thinking the same thing the other day. I was like "Why am I even trying to do purely jungle at this point in the game. Most people are still trying to figure out how to lane."

But yeah. Rageborn Claws first item. Do it.
Corpsefoot Apr 2, 2014 @ 9:02pm 
Originally posted by Haxdax:
Rageborn Claws first item. Do it.

Holy Hell, you were right; building Rageborns and Onslaught before my first Life Steal item was worth the relatively tiny window of risk in jungle XD

Now, let me return the favor and stress once again how potent lvl 1 jungling for Slivus can be ;D
Last edited by Corpsefoot; Apr 2, 2014 @ 9:02pm
Haxdax Apr 2, 2014 @ 9:09pm 
Those two items alone will make you hit harder than anyone else your level. But that Oblivion Axe (I think that is what it is called) will give you crit making you hit for like 500. Plus the added AD. Get that as a third item.

Most important stats for Slivus are:
1. Attack Damage
2. Attack Speed
3. Passive in Jungle (Stand in the damn Jungle and fight. 72% attack speed buff!!!!!!!!!!!!)
4. Crit
Haxdax Apr 3, 2014 @ 9:22pm 
After playing Slivus many more times since this post, I have gotten much better with him. I made a guide on this site. Go up to the top and press Guides. Leave comments and tell me what I did right and what I did wrong.
DòóM  [developer] Apr 3, 2014 @ 10:00pm 
Cool, thanks for the guide!
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