Blackguards > General Discussions > Topic Details
JP Jan 26 @ 3:37pm
Better Weapons?
Is there better weapons in the game than standard swords?
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Sunshine Jan 26 @ 3:42pm 
Originally posted by JP:
Is there better weapons in the game than standard swords?

If I remember it right the Mace in the first town is better than the Sword on average, and I prefer Bows, Spears and Maces over swords and daggers in the game in general as crushing and piercing damage seems, at least for now, got the upper hand.
just.dont.do.it Jan 26 @ 3:55pm 
Overall, bashing damage is superior among the "normal" damage types (because most things are not immune nor well-protected from it), and infantry damage (seen on polearms and some other 2-h bashing weapons) is even superior, but rare. Even well-armored and well-defended mobs are not quite resistant to infantry damage.
stevethebarbarian Jan 26 @ 4:39pm 
There are two good spears, but spears aren't worth using. The Neethan axe is good in the first town, and there's another one - Palios I think, you get for killing one of the Iribar Lillies. There are 2 very good swords, but you don't get them untill Chapter 4.
gjx469 Jan 27 @ 1:27am 
I agree with the OP on this one - the sword you can buy in Neetha is a 0/0/0 weapon and does a base damage of 1d6+4 even though its 1H. On top of this, you only need a str of 14 for the first str damage increment, making it effectively a 1d6+5. This is the same as a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ sword, without the latter's penalties, and slightly higher than 1H axes/maces (not even factoring the much larger attack and parry penalties on those weapons).

If you're building a tank type melee, 1h sword + good shield is very hard to beat - the damage you take is considerably lower than if you equip a 1h axe/mace, never mind 2h weapons (as your parry is much higher, meaning that the mob's hit roll is much harder for every single attack, even though you can only actively parry the first blow). On top of this, feint is probably underrated by most people who like to see the high damage numbes from power attack etc - with feint, you can make sure you hit hard to hit mobs, and you can even have your tank do this first in the round to make it easier for your damage dealers to follow up with harder hits later in the round.

The other factor in this when it comes to armor is that swords can make use of special attacks that wound and ignore armor entirely - this isn't available for axes/maces, which have to overpower armor with sheer damage.
just.dont.do.it Jan 27 @ 2:35am 
Most enemies don't have much armor to ignore. Hammer Blow WILL hit for much, much more damage than armor-ignoring specials from the feint tree.

That said, it's not like feint tree is useless. It's fine, just suboptimal -- you can certainly play the game being on defensive and working with parry. It's just the fact that you will be outnumbered on the most maps, and you have only ONE parry per turn, no matter how well you characters can defend. So, hitting hard and killing stuff is generally more practical than engaging in prolonged swordplay.
Last edited by just.dont.do.it; Jan 27 @ 2:36am
gjx469 Jan 27 @ 4:57am 
Just to be clear - even though you only have one *active* parry per round, your parry score will lower your opponents' attack roll for every attack they carry out.

This means that the trade-off for the bashing weapons is that you are much easier to hit.

On a map where you're outnumbered, the key is to make each enemy ineffective asap. For most mobs that can be wounded, 2-3 wounds effectively makes them unable to hit or parry/dodge your attacks.

If we were talking about a single player game, you might argue that feint is suboptimal, but on a combined arms set up, feint and similar attacks set up mobs to be taken down by hammerblows from another party member, whereas relying purely on hammerblow may result in a lot of misses.

Edit: btw, if we assume that mobs have no armor of consequence, this argues for 2H swords, which can both hammerblow and feint whilst also having slightly higher base damage than 2H bashing. Of course, the reality is that armor does matter which is why infantry damage is considered supreme.
Last edited by gjx469; Jan 27 @ 4:59am
Morrandir Jan 27 @ 5:12am 
Originally posted by gjx469:
Just to be clear - even though you only have one *active* parry per round, your parry score will lower your opponents' attack roll for every attack they carry out.
Are you sure? How is this done exactly?
gjx469 Jan 27 @ 5:17am 
If you look at the guide section, the devs added some wording around hit rolls.

What happens is this:

the base chance to hit (melee) is 60%, ranged is 50%. For each point of difference between attacker's attack and defender's parry, 5% is added to the hit chance. Hit chance caps at 95% for melee and 90% for ranged.

One active parry is allowed to parry an attack, and unlimited number of dodge attempts are allowed per round.

There are other modifiers to the attack roll, including bonus or penalty for attack type chosen (e.g. power attack has a malus, feint a bonus), and increases to hit chance if the enemy has already failed special attacks (it isn't fully clear however what these bonuses/penalties are as the devs haven't spelt them out in full).


Edit: this is also why its incredibly easy to hit ranged characters in melee - they get 0 to parry from their bow or xbow, so you're comparing your attack score to their base parry score (i.e. parry from attributes alone).
Last edited by gjx469; Jan 27 @ 5:19am
blackdihur Jan 27 @ 5:22am 
Originally posted by Morrandir:
Originally posted by gjx469:
Just to be clear - even though you only have one *active* parry per round, your parry score will lower your opponents' attack roll for every attack they carry out.
Are you sure? How is this done exactly?

The attack change formula is 60+(AV-PV)*5, where AV = attacker's Attack Value and PV is defender's Parry Value. For ranged attacks it should be quite similar, 50+(AV-PV)*5.
Morrandir Jan 27 @ 5:30am 
Well, ok... seems like my TDE P&P knowledge doesn't help me here and I need to RTFM. :)

So if AV=15 and PV=10, that means the "change formula" is 85... erm... 85%?
So the actual AV then is ~13, so the actual hit propability is but 65% instead of 75% (for AV 15)?
gjx469 Jan 27 @ 6:00am 
For a melee attack, AV=15, PV=10, regular hit chance = 60% +(15-10)*5% = 85%. This is equivalent to an AV of '17' under a system where you roll d20 only against your own AV.

If however, the defender's parry was 15, i.e. same as your AV, your hit chance is 60% +(15-15)*5% = 60%. This is equivalent to an AV of '12' under an uncontested d20 roll.

In other words, it pays to raise PV as high as possible if you want to avoid getting hit by mobs, and raising AV as you face tougher mobs.

In some ways, it keeps the DE system relevant at high skill levels, as otherwise it can degenerate into attacker rolling vs. 19AV and defender rolling against a fairly high PV or Dodge.
Last edited by gjx469; Jan 27 @ 6:01am
Morrandir Jan 27 @ 8:21am 
Ok, thanks.

That means...
- ...if AV is 8+ points higher than opponent's PV, always hit
- ...if AV is 12+ points lower than opponent's PV, never hit

That's really a great change to original TDE (4.1) ruleset, where you just roll against your own AW and if it succeeds, the opponent rolls against his PV.
When the opponent has a very high PV (or Dodge ability) you need maneuvers like Feint, decreasing the opponents PV with also decreasing your AV.
So it seems they work different in Blackguards too.

Are there any known formulas for these special abilities?
Last edited by Morrandir; Jan 27 @ 8:22am
illustrious.jfunk Jan 27 @ 8:58am 
The penalty after special attacks is also ignored by too many. It pays to "wait" if your characters are already positioned and let the mobs go first. No penalty on you, but there will be penalites on them.
blackdihur Jan 28 @ 5:55am 
Originally posted by Morrandir:
Ok, thanks.

That means...
- ...if AV is 8+ points higher than opponent's PV, always hit
- ...if AV is 12+ points lower than opponent's PV, never hit

The maximum chance to hit is 95%, while the minimum is 5%. So, there is always a chance to miss and always a chance to hit.
LittleBuddha Jan 28 @ 4:23pm 
And this comes from the dice role, cause in TBE a 1 on the d20 is everytime a hit, no matter what.
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Date Posted: Jan 26 @ 3:37pm
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