Dungeon of the ENDLESS™

Dungeon of the ENDLESS™

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Kanimi Jan 4, 2017 @ 12:37pm
META gaming
What are some META combos for this game and why? Please state your reasoning for how and why you think the combo is effective.
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Showing 1-15 of 29 comments
Navas Jan 5, 2017 @ 3:23am 
Five minor modules room - 2x Neurostan + 2x Tear gas + 1x KIP Cannon.
Neurostan + tear gas is a must massive damage slowing enemies. Is a must at chokepoints.
KIP Cannon for those big guys.
Petralicious Jan 6, 2017 @ 3:18am 
Autodoc + Tear Gas + Biomass Transfer + Supressive Firebot + Gork worked for me pretty well.
Gilmoy Jan 28, 2017 @ 6:25am 
I'm goofing off with Pepper Spray. Plant a few of them in corridors you're not defending, zoom out to the tactical map, and watch for the red spawn dots that suddenly move backward against the flow. That's pepper! It's like monster pong!

Funny: Once you get Chimera Keepers (immobile, regenerates) appearing in spawns (around floor 10), the last mobile monster that walks past a Pepper Spray gets trapped in the Infinite Pepper Spray Wash Cycle. It goes like this: he walks toward you, gets shot by Pepper Spray (again :), and the only valid monster target for him is the immobile Keeper behind him. So he walks back there, they beat on each other for 12 seconds until the Pepper Spray wears off, and then he walks away ... right past the same Pepper Spray. Meanwhile, they both regenerate all damage, so they can do this forever. If he got shot once, he'll get shot every time, and never get out of the loop.

Weird: If Pepper Spray shoots a monster and there are no other monsters in play for it to attack, then it will simply go to the center of that room and stay there, and will not attack heroes even as they kill it.
D. Pede Jan 28, 2017 @ 7:59am 
What is meta gaming?
Petralicious Jan 28, 2017 @ 8:01am 
Originally posted by Daniel P. D.:
What is meta gaming?
A meta character for example is a must-pick for a team.
Meta stuff is genereally the best things you can do.
D. Pede Jan 28, 2017 @ 8:02am 
So door dancing? :D
Petralicious Jan 28, 2017 @ 8:03am 
Originally posted by Daniel P. D.:
So door dancing? :D
What is door dancing?
D. Pede Jan 28, 2017 @ 8:06am 
While a character runs from one room to another, he is untargetable. Monsters are not. So you make 2 rooms with some defenses (theoretically 1 prisoner pod is enough), and just run with one hero from one room to the other. Your hero can't take any damage, but the monsters will slowly get killed by your defenses. No matter how big the horde, you can't lose if you don't mess up.
If the monsters ignore heroes, you need arrrrmani suit or hipster scarf.
Petralicious Jan 28, 2017 @ 8:22am 
Originally posted by Daniel P. D.:
While a character runs from one room to another, he is untargetable. Monsters are not. So you make 2 rooms with some defenses (theoretically 1 prisoner pod is enough), and just run with one hero from one room to the other. Your hero can't take any damage, but the monsters will slowly get killed by your defenses. No matter how big the horde, you can't lose if you don't mess up.
If the monsters ignore heroes, you need arrrrmani suit or hipster scarf.
I'm sure some monsters ignore that and just go for the crystal/modules.
Plus you can get hit in doorways, I think.
D. Pede Jan 28, 2017 @ 10:34am 
@Almost-Birthday PH I'm 100% sure it works, I do it all the time when the level gets too hard or I go with ♥♥♥♥ heroes. Monsters attack the nearest hero, so you just have to make sure no other heroes are near so the 'dancer' gets aggro.
Monsters who ignore heroes like Silic Bulldozers (is that their name) can't be kept from destroying modules, but you can keep them in the room by stying longer in one room before dancing back.
D. Pede Jan 28, 2017 @ 10:38am 
To the metagaming question: I think everything which involves switching items during a wave like one hipster scarf for Silic Bulldozers from two directions gets quite ridiculous :P
MaltyPop Jan 28, 2017 @ 11:44am 
Well, the only really meta stuff is the Neurostunner/Teargas combo, and door-dancing between two turret rooms. Those two are the only things the majority of people will agree are super useful regardless of hero combinations and strategies involved.
Gilmoy Jan 28, 2017 @ 1:47pm 
Hah. Door-dancing = the old Diablo trick of Firewall-spamming a hallway (once you hit the hard cap of number of persistent spells in play on a level, his Apoc doesn't cast), then Teleport-bouncing from one end to the other to make him walk back and forth in it. Sip coffee with your other hand while you kill him without ever targeting him once.

Back in DotE, your dancing heroes can still take splash damage as you run through the zone radii of monsters who have it. This is pretty much just Chimera/Necrophage Kamikaze blowing selves up, Silic Bulldozer attacking a nearby module, or Chimera Keeper pounding the floor. Silic Supporter (crabs) do have splash damage, but they must target somebody first.

Originally posted by Daniel P. D.:
What is meta gaming?
It means roughly to exploit knowledge outside a game's ruleset, especially knowledge you (the player) have about a game, but that your characters within the game do not. In gaming (PC, cards, etc.), it includes discussing favorite strategies, team mixes, monster weaknesses, knowing that the monster list is finite (there's only 20 of them!!) and that every level is finite (only 15 doors), tactics like "door-dancing", strategies like stockpiling industry to always buy every dust factory, etc.

Basically, it's knowledge that emerges over dozens (hundreds; millions over a community of players) of play-throughs, which means millions of total character-lifetimes. No one actor in a book or movie could possibly behave "perfectly" to optimize her life story based on the knowledge of a million past lives. But we gamers (try to) do that every time we play.

Real-life-like:
Leia: "If dust is all you care about, then that's what you'll receive."
Han: "No reward is worth this." <== he was thisclose to letting her walk away

Meta-gaming:
Elise: "Hi, I'm Elise. I can operate modules, and I'm a pretty good fighter."
Esseb: No, a team of three operators does not work. Ima keep this character slot open for a Tank dude. I keep those equipment slots open for a Scarf and a Scope, we'll need those later. We must stockpile 800 industry and go for Emergency Generator because the last 3 floors will be mostly dark. Your level 5 and level 8 active skills are redundant; we need Placebo or Pilfer instead.
Elise: "Um ... what? How did you know that?"
Esseb: I have lived many times. I tried eight teams with you already, we all died. None of us can stop a Bulldozer.

It happens in real life, too. Think of sports, e.g. one game of football. That's the "game", and you play with who you have that day, with whatever plays you know. But before the season, the GM picked players to build the team, the coaches drilled a playbook full of plays, and before each game, the coaches had a depth chart and scripted a game plan to hammer the other team's weaknesses. Those are "metagame", the game-before-the-game. Some GMs play the metagame better than others, and build better teams.

Anything like team construction, deck building, RPG character design, ..., is part of metagaming. (Cabinet selection, corporate hiring, ...) A key part of metagame knowledge is to optimize combos for efficacy, e.g. there are many ways to boost total team damage-per-second, and we've pretty much crowdsolved the optimal solutions amongst all possible candidates. In symmetric games (p2p, not 1-vs-AI), this set of known optimal solutions becomes the "power decks" in CCG tourney environments, or "theory" in chess openings, and you spend much effort to anticipate what the other guy might play.

Metagaming fits human brains, and so we find it natural and fun, and our games tend to go there. Yaay!
Last edited by Gilmoy; Jan 28, 2017 @ 8:20pm
Gilmoy Jan 28, 2017 @ 7:42pm 
1. HoloHero + Seblaster + Pepper Spray (+ multiples) ... + Artifact (if it's there), no heroes

Probably not competitive, but boy is it funny to watch. Anti-hero monsters stop for the hologram, Silic Bulldozer Elites stop for the artifact, Silic Zoners stop for the modules. Pepper Spray starts them fighting each other. So they walk back and forth, or fight each other, and meanwhile Seblaster is whittling them down like an unstopped sink. I confirm that Seblaster does not damage your hologram.

It pops most kamikazes before they even reach your hero room. Half or more of the monsters kill each other off. (Afterward, run a hero through those rooms and he'll pick up all dust loot they dropped)

Even better, it separates monsters by speed, like a gas chromatograph. Fast dogs (Necrophage Hunter) run through first, then hero-ignoring monsters (Necrophage Crystophile, Silic Bulldozer) beeline right past. Set up in the next room, and you'll get only trickles of those guys, one trickle at a time.

Very Easy floor 11. Caveat: I haven't seen Silic Zoner all game. If several Zoners arrive simultaneously, they'll probably erase this before the Pepper Spray nerfs them.

2. major module + Pepper Spray (alone in a side room)

Silic Bulldozers will detour to destroy your undefended major modules. You can't spare a hero to babysit each one. Solution: put one Pepper Spray in that room. Bulldozer enters, throws one punch (this dings both modules about 10% each), gets sprayed, and he'll walk himself out to attack a monster. Every few doors, run a repair guy through all of your rooms.
Timerlane Jan 28, 2017 @ 8:50pm 
Originally posted by Gilmoy:
Meta-gaming:
Elise: "Hi, I'm Elise. I can operate modules, and I'm a pretty good fighter."
Essib: No, a team of three operators does not work. Ima keep this character slot open for a Tank dude. I keep those equipment slots open for a Scarf and a Scope, we'll need those later. We must stockpile 800 industry and go for Emergency Generator because the last 3 floors will be mostly dark. Your level 5 and level 8 active skills are redundant; we need Placebo or Pilfer instead.
Elise: "Um ... what? How did you know that?"
Essib: I have lived many times. I tried eight teams with you already, we all died. None of us can stop a Bulldozer.
You could always just choose to not 'build' Elise as an Operator; two Device slots means a lot of potential versatility, and Shrapnelizer is up there with Red Plume for room-destroying potential. Who needs to tank when you've got a room-wide nuke(which you can Restore and spam with Science when needed)? And with a Bio-Organic Transfer in the room, the sudden death of 15-20 monsters should render any Hero-damage concerns irrelevant.

My only real 'complaints' about her are that she doesn't learn Repair by default(Surviving Kit being an excellent way to fix that while giving a little boost to Defense, Regen and Wit), and the loss of the Armor Slot means you can't give her a Zone Device(and thus Neurostun Lite).

AFAIC, she's one of the best Heroes in the game, and the only times I probably wouldn't take her would be in the Library(should be obvious why) and Refreezerator(too slow, can't Restore) Pods. Shrapnelizer use does also require some care in the Organic Pod, where module repair is impossible.
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Date Posted: Jan 4, 2017 @ 12:37pm
Posts: 29