Door Kickers > General Discussions > Topic Details
-ISIS- Lana Kane May 2 @ 2:58pm
No crouch = no buy
Frozen synapse could crouch in all it's wonderous glory. This game's been out for 8 months, 10 updates, and no crouching? Very unfortunate. I'll keep an eye out for future updates I guess.
Showing 1-15 of 15 comments
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Fruity May 3 @ 4:26am 
Don't you worry. The developers browse here often. The game is still in alpha so there are certainly gonna be a good amount of features later.
Koranis May 3 @ 9:34am 
So you would buy the game if it only was possible to crouch? Very narrow minded approach, if you ask me.
Red Panda May 3 @ 11:34am 
There is actually crouching sound files ingame so it must be planned
bogdan1807 May 3 @ 12:49pm 
There is also an entity variable which is described as "CM_VISION_BLOCK_CROUCHED = 8, // hides crouched characters".

But to be honest I don't see what use will it even have, except for hiding behind low objects. Right now you automatically go in cover behind certain objects and when we'll have a crouch action, it will do the exact same thing just that you'll have to give the order to crouch, it's hardly something game-changing.
Last edited by bogdan1807; May 3 @ 1:44pm
-ISIS- Lana Kane May 3 @ 3:32pm 
So having a guy in front with a shield crouched while guys follow him standing up like irl isn't game changing? Being able to actually have windows everywhere and if you forget to crouch you die isn't game changing? My bad...I guess I'm narrow minded.

Thanks for the info though. Sounds like it will be coming eventually.
Last edited by -ISIS- Lana Kane; May 3 @ 3:33pm
StrangeLittleMan May 3 @ 3:38pm 
Originally posted by -ISIS- Lana Kane:
So having a guy in front with a shield crouched while guys follow him standing up like irl isn't game changing? Being able to actually have windows everywhere and if you forget to crouch you die isn't game changing? My bad...I guess I'm narrow minded.

Thanks for the info though. Sounds like it will be coming eventually.

You are absolutely right.
But considering this game has a top-down view and is quite fast-paced, crouching isn't really important or needed in this particular game.
Last edited by StrangeLittleMan; May 3 @ 3:39pm
-ISIS- Lana Kane May 3 @ 3:43pm 
@StrangeLittleMan

You are quite correct about it seeming like it isn't needed b/c of the pace. However, top down view is no excuse.

If you haven't had the pleasure of playing Frozen Synapse on your tablet or PC I suggest you go play the free demo my good sir! It has crouching and multiplayer with all its wonderous 2 bit graphics. :P

http://store.steampowered.com/app/98200/
Last edited by -ISIS- Lana Kane; May 3 @ 3:45pm
bogdan1807 May 3 @ 11:55pm 
Originally posted by -ISIS- Lana Kane:
So having a guy in front with a shield crouched while guys follow him standing up like irl isn't game changing? Being able to actually have windows everywhere and if you forget to crouch you die isn't game changing? My bad...I guess I'm narrow minded.

Thanks for the info though. Sounds like it will be coming eventually.

The shield-man doesn't walk around crouched, he'd get cramps after 1 minute, nor does the man behind shoot over him, he'll shoot from the side. The game already allows you to "shoot over" the shield-man if you put both troopers very close together.

As for sneaking past windows, yeah I suggested the same thing a couple of times both here and on the DK forum, I just forgot to mention it again. If you'd play the game you'd realize that having windows on the map is not a handicap but and advantage, it gives you more ways to shoot inside a room. The levels are time sensitive so there isn't much sneaking around required, plus you still have to clear the entire level before finishing in most missions.

I'm not saying that it's not a good feature to have but I stand by my initial statement, I don't see myself crouching under windows or staying in one place for more than 2 seconds to make use of the crouch mechanic.But, now and then I might find if useful, hence not something game-changing.
The Wrathalos May 5 @ 1:03am 
This is an amazing game, so someone making their choice off a single feature is petty but, their choice. It's like people who wouldn't play guild wars because it didn't have a jump. (like WoW) If said person does not want the game it is in alpha so many updates are to come. Not having ever palyed the game it's ahrd to jump to a conclusion on if it even needs a crouch. I would say having put many hours on the game crouch isn't needed at all. Could be implemented very well i can see it already. I choose beach and clear a month ago over this one. Breach and clear falls short of this in many many ways, and i do beleive it just dropped dlc in joint with frozen synopse. If thats your thing check it out, I'm just saying your missing out for a kinda a dumb reason.
Vulpe Nebuna  [developer] May 5 @ 9:39am 
Frozen Synapse is an awesome game which I played a lot, esp. in multiplayer. Need more time to play the Red expansion, though :(

Which reminds me Breach & Clear has the Frozen Synapse DLC out, I have to get that too :)

Back to the subject at hand, we are not against crouching but feel that designing our gameplay so that players have the need to order crouch on / off all the time would be a mistake. I used that in Frozen Synapse, and it worked for that game, but ours is different.

We're just not very fond of micromanaging and for sure we wouldn't want people to give a couple of orders just to accomplish a simple task like two soldiers working as a real team, shooting over the shoulder, etc.

Note that our conversations with real life Counter Terrorism operators generally point out that crouching is not really a thing they do, since staying dynamic is much more important and effective.

On the other hand, one of the values we cherish is allowing the players to choose tactics and methods, and letting them judge for themselves what works and what is appropriate for each situation. If we think about soldiers under fire behind cover, that could crouch to benefit from full cover while sacrificing their ability to see / shoot, or if we think about troopers sneaking under a window, it does make some sense. Note that the latter case is not really something you currently see in our game.

We'll see what we can do in further versions, no promises, but I wanted to let you know our train of thought on the matter.
BlackAlpha May 5 @ 3:32pm 
Off the top of my head, some situations in which you crouch:

- You do a high-low (stationary or around corner).
- You try to move unseen past a window, so you move underneath it while crouched.
- You stack up underneath a window while in stealth because there's no other place where you can stack up.
- You crouch behind cover to make better use of said cover.
- You crouch to do a hasty high-low because you need to do an emergency reload or switch to secondary while being in front.
- Shield crouches to lower himself so that people behind him can shoot over him.
- You crouch to make yourself a smaller target in large open areas (typically outdoors, but can also work in huge open spaces inside large buildings).
- You crouch to better see underneath an obstacle.

There might be more... Most of these could be automated. The last two probably don't apply in this game.
Last edited by BlackAlpha; May 5 @ 3:58pm
Vulpe Nebuna  [developer] May 5 @ 4:39pm 
Yes, the plan is to have crouching behind cover automated when reloading.
The Wrathalos May 5 @ 4:44pm 
It would feel much more natural to not have to click crounch ever. As you stated before the pace of the game would make more buttons annoying fast. having it automated makes alot more sense, as your troopers would effectively use this with no extra buttons. Another great feature to look into might be to lock to corner for peak firing, which can create corner coverand great for peaking corners without having to do an akwardside step into view everytime.
Alpa Chino May 6 @ 7:10am 
lol
-ISIS- Lana Kane May 6 @ 9:30am 
Automated crouching is a good idea for a lot of situations, many that BlackAlpha has brought up.
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