Verdun > Generelle diskussioner > Emneoplysninger
Ashleey's Pickels 6. jan kl. 3:33pm
machine guns.
I feel that the machine guns in this game are not as good as they could be. I think that if fixed MG's were added to the game it would make the game a lot better. Here are my ideas for the fixed MG's

-Two MG's per line on the larger maps one MG per line on the smaller maps. For the Allies it would ba a hotchkiss, St. Étienne or maybe a Vickers gun since canadians are being added.

-You would have one box of ammunition per defence and the box would contain whatever would be the historical amount.

-Maybe the MG's would be disabled on attack so people wouldn't stay back and camp. People would use the Mobile MG's to attack

-Another problem I have is that the german MG is basicly a lazer gun that sounds like a pea shooter.

The counter arguments that I have heard are they they would be OP because the would have to be placed in a spot where you can see where the enemy would be coming from. I do not think they would be OP since people are not screaming about the german MG being OP because the fixed MG's would basicly be the German MG execpt you would not be mobile and you wouldn't be able to reload.

The other argument is that they would be unused because of the reasons stated above. People zig zaging across nomans land can be tricky to shott with a bolt action rifle so I know I would use the fixed MG if I had the chance. Also it would make an NCO able to kill people at a longer range. Even though though the mortar is pretty good for that if you know what you are doing.
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Bishop 6. jan kl. 3:51pm 
German MG isnt OP cuz there aren't many places it can be deployed where it can cut down the map without being countered.

Problem with fixed MGs (Devs already said it's not likely to appear) is that they will either be OP or pointless like most games. Either they will be easily countered meaning no one uses them, or if they can't be countered then their going to either have a terrible line of fire else be OP.

As the German and French MG are best when depolyed as a static MG they fill the current role and as the game is based around the squad and class system having a rifleman/NCO acting as a gunner isn't fitting the game style.

I do agree that the MG-08/15 is too accureate and needs to be altered.
Ashleey's Pickels 6. jan kl. 5:07pm 
Oprindeligt skrevet af Bishop:
German MG isnt OP cuz there aren't many places it can be deployed where it can cut down the map without being countered.

Problem with fixed MGs (Devs already said it's not likely to appear) is that they will either be OP or pointless like most games. Either they will be easily countered meaning no one uses them, or if they can't be countered then their going to either have a terrible line of fire else be OP.

As the German and French MG are best when depolyed as a static MG they fill the current role and as the game is based around the squad and class system having a rifleman/NCO acting as a gunner isn't fitting the game style.

I do agree that the MG-08/15 is too accureate and needs to be altered.

That is true. Maybe the fixed MG's would be placed in a good position to view only part of nomans land. You would be a very easy target for enemy arty and riflemen. Maybe only the MG class could use the fixed MG's. Like say when you are defending you only spawn with a luger/ruby and have to go and grab and MG but if they are all already taken you could help to person using it by grabbing ammunition but on attack to get the MG 08/15 or chautchat.
Lister 6. jan kl. 5:39pm 
The biggest problem is how it is to snipe machine gunners. Versus rifles, people should go with the rifle every time.
Bishop 6. jan kl. 6:12pm 
problem there Tom is they become weak for the Gunner, it's nice to be able to be mobile as the gunner to set up as it's needed. which is why i dont see fixed MGs as viable. I would like a call in indirect MG fire ability for a squad some time (common method of using them)
Ashleey's Pickels 6. jan kl. 6:58pm 
Scrap that idea. I stick by my old one. THe MG's would still play a big role as a class that is pushing across nomans land and providing coverfire. I would like to be able to use a machine gun in my trench than to call in magic machine gun fire. Adding fixed MG's would be more viable than calling in magic machine gun fire. It would add a more authintic ww1 experience. The Fixed MG would be good because they would be in a good postion to provide fire over a section of the map and they would have a ton of amunition. The disadvantage would be that you would be and easy target for snipers or Arty. It wouldn't be unrealistic for a rifleman or NCO to know how to operate an MG.
Praxius 6. jan kl. 8:28pm 
As an example of Fixed MG's not being a good idea, is when I play Red Orchestra 2, they have a number of fixed MG's on each map and while they do randomly change positions each match, eventually everybody knows exactly where to expect them and anybody trying to use them only last about 3 seconds before everybody zeros in on them and blows their brains out.

They're rarely used except by the new players who haven't learned the hard way that they're more a death trap than an effective means to take out the enemy.

It'd be alright if the MG's were on wheels and could be moved around, or have effective guard shields protecting the gunner from fire like the Maxim or PM M1910:
http://qa.operatorchan.org/w/src/133220708028.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1b/Maxim_Maschinengewehr_1910.jpg

But still, there were a few Machine Guns in WWI that were designed for mobility, such as the Lewis Gun, Chauchat, Hotchkiss M1909 and Madsen MG as examples.
Sidst redigeret af Praxius; 6. jan kl. 8:44pm
[Line of Eld] The Picard 6. jan kl. 8:31pm 
I think the chauchat is well balanced but the 08/15 needs gradually building inaccuracy when firing long bursts. Fixing a weapon to a the ground does provide alot of stability and hence accuracy so making it too inaccurate would be my concern...
Ashleey's Pickels 6. jan kl. 8:34pm 
Oprindeligt skrevet af Praxius:
As an example of Fixed MG's not being a good idea, is when I play Red Orchestra 2, they have a number of fixed MG's on each map and while they do randomly change positions each match, eventually everybody knows exactly where to expect them and anybody trying to use them only last about 3 seconds before everybody zeros in on them and blows their brains out.

They're rarely used except by the new players who haven't learned the hard way that they're more a death trap than an effective means to take out the enemy.

Well the thing is Ro2 and verdun are completly different games. Ro2 is more realistic and it's based in ww2 there are tons of building and nooks and cranies to hide in and snipe the MG. In verdun the MG would be over nomans land the best place you can hide is a Poppy so the fixed MG's would be good because they would spew death down upon nomans land. I'm getting tired of people compairing Ro2 to verdun.
Praxius 6. jan kl. 8:55pm 
Oprindeligt skrevet af Tom:
Well the thing is Ro2 and verdun are completly different games. Ro2 is more realistic and it's based in ww2 there are tons of building and nooks and cranies to hide in and snipe the MG. In verdun the MG would be over nomans land the best place you can hide is a Poppy so the fixed MG's would be good because they would spew death down upon nomans land. I'm getting tired of people compairing Ro2 to verdun.

I'm not comparing RO2 to Verdun, I'm comparing the aspect of fixed MG's.

It doesn't matter if you have urban areas of combat with fixed MG's or barren open lands. If people know where the MG's are, they're going to quickly and easily zero in on those areas, wait for someone to jump on one, and then pick them off.

In fact, in Verdun, it's going to be even easier to do because of the lack of cover and the front line design. You know 95% of the enemy is going to be right in front of you, which is exactly where the fixed MG's will be. You will have snipers and riflemen covering the MG placements and picking people off while the rest of the team runs forward to take the trenches.

The fixed MG guys have to scan the entire area in front of them to target all the moving targets as well as the fixed ones and in two seconds they're going to have several guys shooting at them because they will know exactly where they are. They won't have the ability to change position to have an element of surprise for the enemy and will be at a disadvantage every time.

Sure even with random MG placements, new players and new maps will be deadly because people are not used to their locations. Give that same map with the same set of MG placements a few hours of play with the same players and suddenly those MG placements become pretty useless to the point nobody will want to use them if they want to stay alive.

And funny.... I would figure being compared to RO2 would be a compliment.... RO is a great game imo. Verdun is a great game too for similar reasons, but it also has its own distinctions that make it its own game.

Still.... are you trying to say that I shouldn't compare Verdun to RO2 ever?

What about other games? Nobody is allowed to compare games or note similarities or differences anymore?

The only thing I can suggest that would be a good balance would be to have the team or team leader pick on the map where to put the MG's for best use prior to the map starting.... this would give a lot more variety and versatility to the MG's every match. It would balance the MG's in a way that the enemy won't know every time where the MG's are right away. A path they took one round may not work the next and they have to adapt. And it would take the enemy longer to oppress MG'ers as they won't know where they are right away.

.... Something RO2 doesn't do ;)
Sidst redigeret af Praxius; 6. jan kl. 9:02pm
Ashleey's Pickels 7. jan kl. 7:49am 
Oprindeligt skrevet af Praxius:
Oprindeligt skrevet af Tom:
Well the thing is Ro2 and verdun are completly different games. Ro2 is more realistic and it's based in ww2 there are tons of building and nooks and cranies to hide in and snipe the MG. In verdun the MG would be over nomans land the best place you can hide is a Poppy so the fixed MG's would be good because they would spew death down upon nomans land. I'm getting tired of people compairing Ro2 to verdun.

I'm not comparing RO2 to Verdun, I'm comparing the aspect of fixed MG's.

It doesn't matter if you have urban areas of combat with fixed MG's or barren open lands. If people know where the MG's are, they're going to quickly and easily zero in on those areas, wait for someone to jump on one, and then pick them off.

In fact, in Verdun, it's going to be even easier to do because of the lack of cover and the front line design. You know 95% of the enemy is going to be right in front of you, which is exactly where the fixed MG's will be. You will have snipers and riflemen covering the MG placements and picking people off while the rest of the team runs forward to take the trenches.

The fixed MG guys have to scan the entire area in front of them to target all the moving targets as well as the fixed ones and in two seconds they're going to have several guys shooting at them because they will know exactly where they are. They won't have the ability to change position to have an element of surprise for the enemy and will be at a disadvantage every time.

Sure even with random MG placements, new players and new maps will be deadly because people are not used to their locations. Give that same map with the same set of MG placements a few hours of play with the same players and suddenly those MG placements become pretty useless to the point nobody will want to use them if they want to stay alive.

And funny.... I would figure being compared to RO2 would be a compliment.... RO is a great game imo. Verdun is a great game too for similar reasons, but it also has its own distinctions that make it its own game.

Still.... are you trying to say that I shouldn't compare Verdun to RO2 ever?

What about other games? Nobody is allowed to compare games or note similarities or differences anymore?

The only thing I can suggest that would be a good balance would be to have the team or team leader pick on the map where to put the MG's for best use prior to the map starting.... this would give a lot more variety and versatility to the MG's every match. It would balance the MG's in a way that the enemy won't know every time where the MG's are right away. A path they took one round may not work the next and they have to adapt. And it would take the enemy longer to oppress MG'ers as they won't know where they are right away.

.... Something RO2 doesn't do ;)

From what I can tell you are prejecting your experiences of RO2 into verdun because you have played very little verdun and a lot of Ro2. I used the regular german MG on picardie to great effect I pretty much stayed in the same place their whole attack. The thing with verdun is that the teams are very small 12 players and the map picardie is fairly large you can usaully see and enemy run across nomans land to get closer so they can shoot you before they actaully do it. maybe the MG's could be placed in the pillboxes that are on some of the maps. it's hard to see if someone is in them or not unless you are veryt near them so people would be able to get to the fixed MG before getting sniped but once you start firing that thing people are going to know where you are. Okay I don't mind people compairing a game to verdun but when people say "Oh it doesn't work in this game it obviosly will not work in this game"
Chief 7. jan kl. 9:01am 
Fixed MGs would be a great idea! :yay: Trying to defend and attack them would be even more fun :)
Bishop 7. jan kl. 11:38am 
at which point they become over powered and wont be added. but the fixed mgs in CoD and BF never really worked, they were useful for maybe an ambush once in a blue moon but you man them for like 30 seconds you get poped easily. same would happen here, if their in a strong point theyd have to be seriously limited in the field of fire and would then be pointless as people will just avoid the field of fire.
Ashleey's Pickels 8. jan kl. 9:21am 
Oprindeligt skrevet af Bishop:
at which point they become over powered and wont be added. but the fixed mgs in CoD and BF never really worked, they were useful for maybe an ambush once in a blue moon but you man them for like 30 seconds you get poped easily. same would happen here, if their in a strong point theyd have to be seriously limited in the field of fire and would then be pointless as people will just avoid the field of fire.

Maybe fixed MG"S isn't the way to go. I would really like to see HMG's (Heavy machine guns) implemented into this game. Espically for the Allies Because the chautchat was hardly ever used. Compaired to the other machine guns such as the Vickers, Hochkiss, or St. Etienne mle 07 or lewis gun. Maybe there could be a HMG squad the reason I didn't suggest that is a don't think players would like to run around carring a bypod or box of ammunition only to not be able to shoot the MG. Maybe the squad memebers could be equiped with carbines or something idk. Haven't done enough research into what the MG crews were equiped with.
Carbohydrate 8. jan kl. 10:03am 
Heavy mgs is something i generally like to see too but not in frontlines as it would make advancing and the capturing pretty much impossible (more realistic but less fun, games would probably end in stalemates 99% of the time), it is already hard enough to get through the lmg fire.
If there are new gamemodes however, which there probably will be at some point, that makes winning a game on different objectives with the hmgs being less overpowered considering it then it would be awesome.
Ashleey's Pickels 8. jan kl. 10:07am 
Oprindeligt skrevet af Carbon:
Heavy mgs is something i generally like to see too but not in frontlines as it would make advancing and the capturing pretty much impossible (more realistic but less fun, games would probably end in stalemates 99% of the time), it is already hard enough to get through the lmg fire.
If there are new gamemodes however, which there probably will be at some point, that makes winning a game on different objectives with the hmgs being less overpowered considering it then it would be awesome.

There are ways to counter HMGS maybe you could use gas as a smoke screen or use arty to blow them to bits. The only way I can think of to implement them realisticly is with fixed mg's or and HMG squad.
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