Nuclear Throne > General Discussions > Détails du sujet
Solid 7 juin à 5h21
Mutation List (from Arand)
At the end of the Rami RNG Challenge Arand brought up the thought of a Challenge based on selecting mutations in a kind of order or in tiers. My response was to ask what such a list would look like and I was given an answer. I have reason to suspect that various portions of the community will not agree with this (including myself), but I feel like it is a starting point for a discussion on mutations and may result in more.

Disclaimer: Even though it may become a challenge at some point (like a lot of the things around here) I make no promises. Given the number of ideas I have been given and drafts related to them even if this is awesome there will still be a good wait time before anything comes of it.

arands a écrit :
Solid a écrit :

Yeah, but we would need like a community of people to determine what that list might look like.
1. Rabits paw
2. Boiling veins
3. Extra stomach
4. Scarier face
5. Rihno skin
6. Impact wrist
7. Blood lust
8. Throne butt (this one is a little random so I put it in the middle)
9. Laser brain
10. Euphoria
11. Racing mind
12. Lucky shot
13. Shotgun fingers
14. Bolt marrow
15. Stress
16. Long arms
17. Extra feet
18. Recycle gland
19. Eagle eyes
20. Sharp teeth
21. Plutonium hunger (without rabits paw it's not that good)
Missing Mutations:
  • Back Muscle
  • Gamma Guts
  • Last Wish
I assume 1 is best and 21 is worst. I also assume we are talking in general and not related to a specific character.
Dernière modification de Solid; 7 juin à 7h43
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meow 7 juin à 5h41 
that list is; i completely disagree. plutonium hunger should be numb 1 and sharp teeth is numb 3 or so. hmph!
Zaxxon 7 juin à 7h08 
yeah! poop!


:)
Solid 7 juin à 7h19 
meow247 a écrit :
bolds

Those choices caught me off guard a bit there. I thought I was the only one who liked Plutonium Hunger as a singular stand alone mutation. However I am currently not so convinced by Sharp Teeth; waiting on a run to prove me wrong in time.
Dernière modification de Solid; 7 juin à 7h23
Bellsauce 7 juin à 7h25 
Thanks for putting this together! Teir lists, in my experience, beget arguments more often then they beget consensus, but it's still a great discussion. I think the effectiveness of mutations will vary a lot by individual playstyle.

For example, If offered plutonium hunger early in the game, I always grab it. I have low impulse control and a prepensity for greed, so it saves me from rushing into dangerous areas to grab rads, which is the cause of my death probably 80% of the time.

Effectiveness also varies with how these are combined. Eagle Eyes+Recycle Gland+Minigun is pretty brutal, as is Bolt Marrow+Auto crossbow.

I haven't found Sharp Teeth to be worthwhile at all yet. I find I get the most benefit from Racing Mind with melee weapons.
Yeouch 7 juin à 7h37 
Where are back muscle, gamma guts, and last wish? I thought this was supposed to be for all the mutations.
Solid 7 juin à 7h41 
Yeouch a écrit :
Where are back muscle, gamma guts, and last wish? I thought this was supposed to be for all the mutations.

That is a good point... will add them to the original post.
Wizard_Amul 7 juin à 9h22 
We're never all going to agree on all of these, but some of these really depend on the run you're doing (like recycle gland and long arms sometimes being quite good and other times being almost useless) but if I was just doing a general run, my own personal list would look something like this:

1. Boiling Veins
2. Scarier Face
3. Rabbit Paw
4. Rhino Skin
5. Second Stomach
6. Laser Brain
7. Impact Wrists
8. Throne Butt
9. Back Muscle
10. Blood Lust
11. Euphoria
12. Racing Mind
13. Stress
14. Recycle Gland
15. Long Arms
16. Shotgun Fingers
17. Bolt Marrow
18. Plutonium Hunger
19. Extra Feet
20. Lucky Shot
21. Sharp Teeth
22. Eagle Eyes
23. Gamma Guts
24. Last Wish

Laser Brain goes way down if you're not using those weapons, but for a general run you're probably aiming to pick up at least one so that's why I have it so high--it also fits at spot 13 to go with the group 14-17. Mutations 14-17 really depend on whether or not you're even using those weapons, but I think they're each about that effective for those respective weapon types, depending on exactly which weapons you're using. A few of them can easily be interchanged and some of them can be changed by a lot if they fit your playstyle (I personally really like Back Muscle but it might not be as useful for everyone), but it seems about right to me (the original list is pretty good overall, I have to say--mine isn't radically different). Some of them are also character dependent.

The ones that are hardest to place are Stress (I don't personally like it but it seems about as good as racing mind...it's particularly good with Chicken and Boiling Veins), Extra Feet (could easily be much higher if it helps you about as much as Euphoria), and Lucky Shot (seems like getting free mini-presents because you often don't get the ammo you need--it was recently changed, though, and I'm not sure how much it helps you in the end game, so it could be good). Eagle Eyes could also go higher if you're using weapons that really benefit from it.
Dernière modification de Wizard_Amul; 7 juin à 9h24
Zaxxon 7 juin à 9h48 
For me, Rhino Skin and Scarier Face are always the top two.

Then again, I have not yet looped even once so...

Anti 7 juin à 9h58 
I think there is a lot of parity in the mutations so I would be unable to rank them from 1-24 but I think they can be broken into tiers (mutations not listed in any particular order within tiers)

Top Tier
Boiling Veins
Rhino Skin
Scarier Face
Blood Lust
Rabbit Paw
Impact Wrists

Upper Tier
Plutonium Hunger (I think PT is highly underrated)
Back Muscle
Euphoria
Second Stomach
Lucky Shot
Racing Mind
EDIT: Laser Brain (The energy based weapons are incredibly powerful and you'll want one when looping so LB rises above the other weapons specific mutations)

Mid Tier (Situational Mutations)
Throne Butt (Varies greatly between characters and what stage of the game you're at)
Shotgun Fingers
Bolt Marrow
Eagle Eyes
Stress
Long Arms
Recycle Gland

Low Tier
Gamma Guts
Sharp teeth (Love it with Rebel)
Last Wish
Extra Feet

It's hard to make a ranking without including synergies as the lesser picked mutations can really make for a solidrun

Eagle Eyes + Recycle Gland
Plutonium Hunger + Impact Wrists
Long Arms + Euphoria
Back Muscle + Lucky Shot (You'll always have ammo to use any weapon you find)
Sharp Teeth + Scarier Face (Almost anything with scarier face works well)
Extra Feet + Long Arms (Most fun you've ever had with the Shovel).

Then you have to add in the characters and it can all get really messy. I will say that Lucky Shot, Eagle Eyes, and Racing Mind are three mutations that I've gained a lot of respect for lately while Impact Wrists, Second Stomach, and Euphoria are three I don't value as highly as I used to.
Dernière modification de Anti; 7 juin à 11h16
Solid 7 juin à 10h09 
I really like the tier system of doing things.
Solid 7 juin à 10h28 
My personal list at the moment.
  1. Boiling veins (the top pick every time I am being serious)
  2. Scarier Face
  3. Plutonium Hunger (good synergy with other mutations and Rush Crown)
  4. Rabbit Paw
  5. Second Stomach
  6. Blood Lust
  7. Rhino Skin
  8. Laser Brain (often gets treated as a weapon specific Scarier Face)
  9. Racing Mind
  10. Impact Wrists (gains a lot more value when combined with other damage mutations)
  11. Back Muscle (greater value when not using bullet/melee weapons)
  12. Throne Butt (high pick for Robot, Roids, Y.V. and low for Crystal, Chicken)
  13. Lucky Shot
  14. Stress (much higher for Chicken, Rebel)
  15. Eagle Eyes (gets a lot higher with Roids or certain weapons like auto-crossbow)
  16. Long arms
  17. Recycle Gland
  18. Extra Feet
  19. Euphoria
  20. Sharp Teeth
  21. Gamma Guts (often seems like a weak version of Sharp Teeth)
  22. Bolt Marrow (goes to the top if an auto-crossbow drops)
  23. Shotgun Fingers (would not take even if auto-shotgun and gatling slugger were in my hands)
  24. Last Wish (no no no)
Mutations that have moved up reciently; Boiling Veins, Scarier Face, Racing Mind, Impact Wrists, Laser Brain

Mutations that have moved down reciently; Rhino Skin, Bolt Marrow, Back Muscle
Dernière modification de Solid; 7 juin à 10h29
Wizard_Amul 7 juin à 10h53 
I would agree with the tier system. Also, I'm still undecided with plutonium hunger...when I first started playing nuclear throne, it was probably in my top 5, but it's not quite as great once you level up all the way. It's great if you're just trying to complete one loop. Also, it works really well with the strategy of playing more carefully and is less useful if you're more aggressive and can get most of the pick ups anyway. Racing Mind recently also moved way up for me as its value in the late game is amazing.
arands 7 juin à 11h49 
Now that I look at it I would put bolt marrow even lower, because of its tendancy to straight up stop working and the fact that normal bolts also home-in, just not that much. Gamma guts and Last Wish would be waaaaaaaay down but back muscle would be in 6. (you just can't beat quadruple machine gun).
Solid 7 juin à 12h11 
Wizard_Amul a écrit :
I would agree with the tier system. Also, I'm still undecided with plutonium hunger...when I first started playing nuclear throne, it was probably in my top 5, but it's not quite as great once you level up all the way. It's great if you're just trying to complete one loop. Also, it works really well with the strategy of playing more carefully and is less useful if you're more aggressive and can get most of the pick ups anyway. Racing Mind recently also moved way up for me as its value in the late game is amazing.

I would hold that plutonium hunger also depends on the character; I normally take Crystal, but if I was playing Chicken Plutonium Hunger would be dead last (want to save those health drops until I reeeeally need them).
Dernière modification de Solid; 7 juin à 12h12
arands 7 juin à 12h56 
Solid a écrit :
Wizard_Amul a écrit :
I would agree with the tier system. Also, I'm still undecided with plutonium hunger...when I first started playing nuclear throne, it was probably in my top 5, but it's not quite as great once you level up all the way. It's great if you're just trying to complete one loop. Also, it works really well with the strategy of playing more carefully and is less useful if you're more aggressive and can get most of the pick ups anyway. Racing Mind recently also moved way up for me as its value in the late game is amazing.

I would hold that plutonium hunger also depends on the character; I normally take Crystal, but if I was playing Chicken Plutonium Hunger would be dead last (want to save those health drops until I reeeeally need them).
With chicken plutonium hunger is a must! What if you die and the only enemies are off screen? Chances of you walking into a medpack are pretty low.
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