Fast, fun, but too hard to enjoy.

[DJGameFreakTheIguana]

I may catch a bit of flak from a hardcore gamer making this small critique, but I really fill the difficulty of this game makes it harder to enjoy then it should be. I mean, it's fast paced, interesting, I like the characters, it's got guns, and nice music, pretty much everything a game needs, but damn, I don't even think I could get my little cousin to play this with me cause he barely make it through the first level(He's not all that good at game but I try to get him to try different things). Compared to Hero Seige, the ony other rouge like game I've played, you barely have a chance to even get through the first level if you're not used to playing games of this nature, nor can you if you're not ditermined to get better at it. If anything, I would suggest adding a difficulty setting, and adding a bit more health and health kits, or at least not taking 2 or more HP away per damage taken. Not to mention due to low numbers in exp, I can't even take what little advantages I get from the mutations in a good amount of time, usually having to wait till after level 2.
This is really all I got to say. This is good for a challenge but it gets pretty old when I have to play the first stage over and over again, some of them have 3 of 4 scorpions turning the game into a bullet hell, not to meniton the desert boss.

I do want to ask though, how long is this game?

[cobalt_drake]

one playthrough (first level upto the final boss) takes around anywhere between 15-30mins..

this game isnt for everyone... dont feel bad.. keep playing and you'll get better... bullet hell IMO suits this kind of a game as it forces you to think so that you dont put yourself in such a position where you face a barrage of projectiles... and if you think the first level is bullet hell, wait till you see the palace and final boss...

beyond that... this game is pretty much solid, maybe a bit rough around the edges...
from what i can tell after reading what u wrote, ur more accusromed to easier games, which is unfortunately the trend today in all genres... and dude youve barely played the game for 10hrs...
adding a difficulty setting? you are talking about a roguelike right? high difficulty, permadeath, and a certain level of dedication necessary to master the game's mecahnics are core to that experience... there are exceptions, but thats the general trend...

[󠀡]

Początkowo opublikowane przez DJGameFreakTheIguana:

nor can you if you're not determined to get better at it.

you need to be determine that you can beat this game :)

i dont think there will be difficulty settings. but im sure the devs planned on toning it down slightly and make the game more interesting.

more health kits: there's a mutation called 'rabbit's paw' which increases drop rates. grab that. it'll help a lot.

use a slugger/crossbow/grenade launcher when dealing with scorpions. it kills them in one hit.

the game has 7 levels(15 total) excluding secret stuff. after that you can loop the game.
for me it takes around 12-17 mins to get a loop.

Początkowo opublikowane przez cobalt_drake:

one playthrough (first level upto the final boss) takes around anywhere between 15-30mins..

:p

[cobalt_drake]

Początkowo opublikowane przez cobalt_drake:

one playthrough (first level upto the final boss) takes around anywhere between 15-30mins..

:p [/quote]

depending on playstyle i guess.

[DJGameFreakTheIguana]

Początkowo opublikowane przez cobalt_drake:

one playthrough (first level upto the final boss) takes around anywhere between 15-30mins..

this game isnt for everyone... dont feel bad.. keep playing and you'll get better... bullet hell IMO suits this kind of a game as it forces you to think so that you dont put yourself in such a position where you face a barrage of projectiles... and if you think the first level is bullet hell, wait till you see the palace and final boss...

Can't wait. :P

"beyond that... this game is pretty much solid, maybe a bit rough around the edges...
from what i can tell after reading what u wrote, ur more accusromed to easier games, which is unfortunately the trend today in all genres..."
I don't really think so, many games these days aren't that easy to me either, but they still give you just a enough wiggle room even if you make mistakes, plus, you usually have more then 8 or so HP(Been playin with Rebel but I know the others have different settings). Even then, there have been easy games back in the day, even when you try to et better at them, once you do, it gets easier. Hell, from what I heard, most people get stuck on the 3rd level of Battletaods, when level 7 is the real kicker for me.

"and dude youve barely played the game for 10hrs..."
How'd fin... probably my profile. Anyway, I did just buy this game the weekend before last, as well as 11 other games, I'm a homebrewer, and also have a job. Even when I play games more then the avererage person would, it's kinda hard to sit down and play one game for that long.

"adding a difficulty setting? you are talking about a roguelike right? high difficulty, permadeath, and a certain level of dedication necessary to master the game's mecahnics are core to that experience... there are exceptions, but thats the general trend... "
Noted. I guess Hero Seige must be one of them, since I feel it's a lot easier, and that's saying a lot when one wrong move can get you killed, or so much as missing a trap fying from a enemy and being to late to dodge it.

Początkowo opublikowane przez meow247:

Początkowo opublikowane przez DJGameFreakTheIguana:

nor can you if you're not determined to get better at it.

you need to be determine that you can beat this game :)

What I was getting at is if the average person plays this, someone you would call a casual gamer. Even though I play games a lot, you can say I'm in between casual and hardcore. There's nothing wrong with a challenging game, but still give you some leway to get through a good amount of it, and I'm no speed runner or perfectionists. In any case, a good amount of my deaths have been me getting caught in a bullet hell, or getting shot by an enemy I didn't notice on the side(that usuall being in later levels).

[ButtahNips]

You're asking them to change what this game is at its core. A hard roguelike. There should be no pandering to people who "find it too hard" like honestly. Don't play it if it's "too hard" for you. Honestly the game is a lot easier than most people will immedietly feel it is. I haven't even beat the game once, and the reason is cause I'm reckless and get greedy with exp. If you take your time and wait for good openings and watch enemy patterns you can get through it. Don't ask for things to be dumbed down cause you can't be bothered to get better at a game.

[stereobub]

JW said that the game will be a lot more accessible for beginners and the difficulty will only get real high after a loop (looping means you beat the final boss and then start another round but with a lot more enemies). :)

[actualized animal]

The first world isn't really all that hard. The enemies are all pretty simple to defeat, with the exception of maybe the golden scorpions and Big Bandit. If you're having trouble, you could always try playing Crystal or Chicken. Make sure to pay close attention to the location of bullets on the screen. Don't just focus on your character, focus on everything around them as well. Also, remember that melee weapons can reflect and destroy enemy bullets.

[stereobub]

I agree with that. But also you should accept that not everyone has time to spend >100hrs on the game and get real good and stuff. Its good that the developers decided to make the game more beginner-friendly, so that normal players are able to get somewhere, and the "veterans" still have fun and get challenged by the game.

I myself put 120 hours in the game and only looped 6 times. That doesnt include the final boss.
So in my opinion it is a good idea to tone things down a bit for newbies, but also still have a challenge for pros.

[EyeofKosm]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Bomb Ninja - Vinyl Scratch:

You're asking them to change what this game is at its core. A hard roguelike. There should be no pandering to people who "find it too hard" like honestly. Don't play it if it's "too hard" for you. Honestly the game is a lot easier than most people will immedietly feel it is. I haven't even beat the game once, and the reason is cause I'm reckless and get greedy with exp. If you take your time and wait for good openings and watch enemy patterns you can get through it. Don't ask for things to be dumbed down cause you can't be bothered to get better at a game.

Let’s not forget this game is still in development. I realize that the difficulty of it is a very polarizing topic, but the "git gud" argument is not valid.

[EyeofKosm]

I tend to agree that the game is a little on the difficult side, and I think that some of the risk/reward isn't as balanced as it should be (Melting comes to mind). I've made it to level 5 once in 17 hours of play, and I have realized that I've made mistakes along way. There is a lot I love about this game, but certain things I really, really don't (Assassins, not having tiers in the levels). I think if they toned down some of the difficulty of it (by adjusting certain things already in place), and added a lot more to it (say about 5 more worlds), it may make for a much more rewarding experience and also add to its replayablity. Keep in mind, I haven't been here since the beginning as some of you have, but I'm comparing this game to Isaac, Hotline Miami, Contra, and Soldiers of Fortune. Ultimately, I feel that it has the start of something beautiful, but it feels like too much of a grind as it currently stands.

Is a good game subjective or objective at this point in game development? Is that based on game genre? Do we play games for fun and entertainment or do we play them to reaffirm our ego?

[Rami]

Hey there, DJGameFreakTheIguana, and thanks for playing Nuclear Throne.

We agree that at this point, the balance is a bit skewed around World 3. The desert boss is really a skill gate that works as intended, so if that's where you get stuck, we'd recommend you watch some videos of other players beating Big Bandit. In the sewers, act careful in open areas and try and use Steroids, for example, to clear areas quickly.

We'll be working in the nearby future to fix some balance-breaking problems, like the fix of Big Dog later this weekend.

Thanks for your feedback and let us know if you have more questions or feedback!

[DJGameFreakTheIguana]

Thanks for the feedback Rami(this is the second time I've seen a dev respond on a forum, the first being in the ZAMB community, and I like this), and just so we clear, I am able to get past that boss and the sewer level onto the junkyard(that's where I really get stuck), but I can still regonize a game's difficulty when I see(to the other users). Oveerall, I'm just saying that some times, even the first level can be a challenge, which wont sit well with people who may or may not be used to a game being challenging right from the start, it sure as hell blindsides me. Though, there's no hard feelings, I just think the game goes by too quick to even enjoy with the low health and all, and maybe a few more chances can be given in the form of a few more health packs(I am aware of the item mutation though), or even make 1 or two more stages before the difficulty spike. I'm not really used to the Rogue-like experience, so this kinda polorizing at the least, and this is from someone who's played a lot of games even since childhood, hard and easy. lol, not used to discussing a game difficulty, as it shows.

I've said enough already, and I'm still looking forward to what can be done in the future nontheless, I've also shown the game to friends outside of steam who also thinks it look tight, but $12 bucks seems like a lot for a game that can end in split second with no chances given. :D

Początkowo opublikowane przez blkmrkt:

I tend to agree that the game is a little on the difficult side, and I think that some of the risk/reward isn't as balanced as it should be (Melting comes to mind). I've made it to level 5 once in 17 hours of play, and I have realized that I've made mistakes along way. There is a lot I love about this game, but certain things I really, really don't (Assassins, not having tiers in the levels). I think if they toned down some of the difficulty of it (by adjusting certain things already in place), and added a lot more to it (say about 5 more worlds), it may make for a much more rewarding experience and also add to its replayablity. Keep in mind, I haven't been here since the beginning as some of you have, but I'm comparing this game to Isaac, Hotline Miami, Contra, and Soldiers of Fortune. Ultimately, I feel that it has the start of something beautiful, but it feels like too much of a grind as it currently stands.

Is a good game subjective or objective at this point in game development? Is that based on game genre? Do we play games for fun and entertainment or do we play them to reaffirm our ego?

My sentiments exaclty, which is why I said it's fun, but too difficult, and I should, quick, to enjoy, which makes it harder when you actually want to play this game. Good thing you brought up contra. You died in one hit but some of it's games weren't so fast paced and only gave you one life. Hell, Neo-Contra on the PS2 is hard for me, but I can still power through it. The game relies on leveling up and using mutations int he form of power up and it wouldn't make a lick of difference when you got 2 HP and no lives going into hard levels. I'm sure people who are used to playing hard games for the challenge will protest, but I play them for entertain regardless of difficuly.

[Qinji]

In relation to what some people have already said and my say again later, some games just aren't for everyone. I don't mean to sound elitist here, even in my experience with Nuclear Throne there are entire days when I can't even go past the scrapyard, but you really need to spend a bit of time to get good at this game
Granted, a few a naturally gifted gamers, but as with any game you need to spend the time to get accustomed to the controls, time to get familiarized with the game mechanics, then more time to build up your strategies, and yet more time to build up a muscle memory in your fingers so that dodging, shooting, and everything becomes second nature.
A game like this isn't meant to be finished in one sitting, you need to try and try and try again, and that's the nature of all roguelikes to a certain degree. Roguelikes are hard, but you're meant to gradually get further and further as your experience with the game builds up. And once you get to that point where you can claim that you're satisfied with your performance, you get to feel so good.

My suggestion is to keep at it, just play for the sake of having fun and not to finish...the game is hella enjoyable even when you don't reach the end.

[TimidTofu]

Since everyone has pretty much given all the advice and knowledge I was gonna try to give, I'll just add on:

It might help to watch playthroughs/videos of people looping the game. It'll help give you an idea of how you could pace yourself so you aren't running into difficult situations.

[Rami]

And DJ, if you ever feel you can get past those levels in the future, or if you can feel your skill level increasing, let us know. We'd love to know how you grow into the game as you continue! :)