Sustained fire bonuses too strong? Have they been buffed with game update?

[St3am_Racer]

I distinctly remember a (recent) time that sustained fire would only apply for consecutive fire by stationary marine on target during his turn and spending 1 AP per sustained fire shot. You had to pay to get that sweet bonus to hit. Now marines get it in overwatch essentially for "free" after GS covers more than one tile in his field of view. This overpowers the balance drastically in marine favor in OW. Each SF shot in OW (after the first regular shot) gives a 56% chance of kill. A marine needed to have 4 tiles of distance to expect a kill (not considering bolter jam) at 77% in OW w/o SF. Now GS is lucky to survive 2 tiles under fire (69% chance of kill) and you're lucky to cover 3 tiles (85% kill). 4 tiles is "impossible" at 94% kill compared to 77% kill before w/o SF in OW. So basically, SF in OW mechanic gives the kill confidence for each marine at 2.5 tiles what he had prior at 4 tiles w/o OW bonuses. This means marines can close in on corners within striking distance. I feel that the GS's are outgunned at close range. Personally, I feel that the balance was fair without free sustained fire in OW.

What were the rules in the board game concerning this?

[St3am_Racer]

The marine player can just take me apart on Suicide mission because of the one real corner on the map. Once he clears that, he takes out an army of GS at the final intersection leading to engine room. It has become a different game, and I don't see much point any more in playing the GS side. You get your butt handed to you despite good strategy. Anybody else feeling the pain for GS's lately?

[St3am_Racer]

Also, if you manage to duck a corner thru a diagonal move at an intersection to avoid a round of overwatch fire, if you choose to re-engage the same termi down the corridor by making another diagonal move back into his LOS, he fires at you with sustained fire bonus immediately on the first tile! Breaking line of sight does not break sustained fire on same target. It just spares you one round of death (56% chance of death to be exact) by using the intersection to hide. Too powerful for too many reasons! As a start, can we at least break sustained fire if GS leaves LOS?

[devildog77]

I usually win with stealers, and I don't think I've lost a suicide mission map yet with them. Exterminate is the only mission that gives me trouble because 30 something stealers isn't enough to get through a well, dug in marine player.

[Andvari]

You get sustained fire as per the board game rules on consecutive shots against the same Genestealer provided you are not moving as part of your action. This also applies to Overwatch shots. It's been like this since release, so nothing has changed.

[Zuggi]

引用自 Ixnatifual：

You get sustained fire as per the board game rules on consecutive shots against the same Genestealer provided you are not moving as part of your action. This also applies to Overwatch shots. It's been like this since release, so nothing has changed.

We made a small change as SF didn't work correctly when using Move & Fire. Before you wouldn't get SF right after stopping your Move & Fire, but you do now (changed to fit the Board Game rules properly)

[devildog77]

引用自 St3am_Racer：

Also, if you manage to duck a corner thru a diagonal move at an intersection to avoid a round of overwatch fire, if you choose to re-engage the same termi down the corridor by making another diagonal move back into his LOS, he fires at you with sustained fire bonus immediately on the first tile! Breaking line of sight does not break sustained fire on same target. It just spares you one round of death (56% chance of death to be exact) by using the intersection to hide. Too powerful for too many reasons! As a start, can we at least break sustained fire if GS leaves LOS?

It also sounds like you are charging down long halls. Unless there's a really, really good reason to run down 4+ squares of OW, don't do it (like he's jammed or you know he's out of CPs --which even then, count on losing 2-3 stealers before the jam occurs -- or of course, you've got so many stealers at the moment you can toss a few away just to see what happens). Even 3 squares kills you about 5 out of 6 times. I usually don't charge around a corner unless its two squares or less and use the time to simply build up my stealers or put pressure on other areas. Don't forget, the threat of a charge is as much pressure as an actual charge. It will force the player to keep termies facing certain ways that you can eventually exploit. If you're just throwing stealers down halls like cannon fodder, you're making it easy on them.

Get out of the habit of playing the termies game and make them play yours. One early match I played against somoene on artifact, the player complained that I wasn't playing "fair" and that I was supposed to try and make them run out of CPs for jams by apparently tossing my stealers away every turn. Instead, I was building them up in all the rooms and corners, applying pressure in every direction without actually getting them shot at (unless the termies were close) because he was taking so long to creep across the map. I was making him play my CQB game, not his. I reminded him that my job was not to make the termies run out of CPs, but to kill termies, which I did. If memory serves he barely got to the long N/S hall just before the artifact room before he was completely overwhelmed from all sides.

[KB]

引用自 devildog77：

引用自 St3am_Racer：

Also, if you manage to duck a corner thru a diagonal move at an intersection to avoid a round of overwatch fire, if you choose to re-engage the same termi down the corridor by making another diagonal move back into his LOS, he fires at you with sustained fire bonus immediately on the first tile! Breaking line of sight does not break sustained fire on same target. It just spares you one round of death (56% chance of death to be exact) by using the intersection to hide. Too powerful for too many reasons! As a start, can we at least break sustained fire if GS leaves LOS?

It also sounds like you are charging down long halls. Unless there's a really, really good reason to run down 4+ squares of OW, don't do it (like he's jammed or you know he's out of CPs --which even then, count on losing 2-3 stealers before the jam occurs -- or of course, you've got so many stealers at the moment you can toss a few away just to see what happens). Even 3 squares kills you about 5 out of 6 times. I usually don't charge around a corner unless its two squares or less and use the time to simply build up my stealers or put pressure on other areas. Don't forget, the threat of a charge is as much pressure as an actual charge. It will force the player to keep termies facing certain ways that you can eventually exploit. If you're just throwing stealers down halls like cannon fodder, you're making it easy on them.

Get out of the habit of playing the termies game and make them play yours. One early match I played against somoene on artifact, the player complained that I wasn't playing "fair" and that I was supposed to try and make them run out of CPs for jams by apparently tossing my stealers away every turn. Instead, I was building them up in all the rooms and corners, applying pressure in every direction without actually getting them shot at (unless the termies were close) because he was taking so long to creep across the map. I was making him play my CQB game, not his. I reminded him that my job was not to make the termies run out of CPs, but to kill termies, which I did. If memory serves he barely got to the long N/S hall just before the artifact room before he was completely overwhelmed from all sides.

This!!! :oD

[Andvari]

@Zuggi Yep I noticed you guys fixed that one :) That doesn't affect Overwatch, though, but then again it shouldn't, so it's all good.

[Adelscott001]

引用自 Ixnatifual：

You get sustained fire as per the board game rules on consecutive shots against the same Genestealer provided you are not moving as part of your action. This also applies to Overwatch shots. It's been like this since release, so nothing has changed.

Sustained fire bonus doesn't applied in overwatch mode en the first ed. rules

[devildog77]

引用自 Adelscott001：

引用自 Ixnatifual：

You get sustained fire as per the board game rules on consecutive shots against the same Genestealer provided you are not moving as part of your action. This also applies to Overwatch shots. It's been like this since release, so nothing has changed.

Sustained fire bonus doesn't applied in overwatch mode en the first ed. rules

So 2 generations ago... :)

[Andvari]

AdelScott001, the game is based on 3rd edition.

[Adelscott001]

引用自 Ixnatifual：

AdelScott001, the game is based on 3rd edition.

I know, i just wanted to point it, cause you said "since released"... since released on 3d edition, not the first one.
I don't like too much to discuss about rules. Rules are rules and we have to play with them, but in this case, since firing overwatch is despicted as a sort of fast area fire, in my opiniom it have no sense to apply the sustained fire (it means aiming) bonus. But, of course, rules are rules...

[Andvari]

Yeah I was talking about since the release of this game, not the old board fame.

[Andvari]

*game

[Tendoncutter]

*Cough* Sustained fire does not mean aiming, but a rate of fire where you, in theory, can keep firing indefinitely. This does not always work, leading to jams. So the bonus given for sustained fire is because of simply firing more times on the same target, thereby upping you chance of hitting. This is not neccesarily represented visualy in the game.