Space Hulk > General Discussions > Topic Details
Heimerdinger Jan 1 @ 10:59am
Why send Terminators into a Space hulk?
Hey guys, I was just wondering to myself why the Blood Angels sent Terminators into the Space hulk? I mean surely normal space marines would be a better choice as they could move faster, and the bonus armour the Terminators get doesn't do much to protect against genestealers anyway. Could somebody explain it to me?
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LorgarXII Jan 1 @ 11:53am 
tactical dreadnought armor which is called terminator armor was specifically designed for ship boarding actions. as the game accurately reflects, a single terminator can at times hold a corridor all by himself because his bulk litterally fills it. also, terminator armor is better shielded against radiation, has a bigger internal air supply as well as being able to mount heavier weapons.
Heimerdinger Jan 1 @ 12:17pm 
Oh right, Thanks for explaining
datguy13 Jan 1 @ 12:21pm 
One point of note- The Dreadnought armor was originally designed in the first Golden Age of Man as a hazardous environment Mining suit. It was later adapted to combat purposes.

The rest is just as Lorgar says.
illitrate Jan 1 @ 12:25pm 
Well, in the intro movie, it shows 1000 Marines were involved in the first boarding of the Space a Hulk, but only 50 made it back. One of the reasons for that is because they didn't know what they were up against and most of them would have been normal Marines that got wiped out.

Terminator armour is ideal for exactly this kind of encounter, it's just that Genesteslers are so lethal. The best way to show this is to look at how normal Marines would work if they were in the game. There was a set of rules published in White Dwarf for the 1st edition of the game, and from those you can see how the normally lethal Space Marines would get shredded when faced with a Space Hulk full of Genestealers.

Terminators carry Storm Bolters, which are essentially Heavy Bolters. So a normal Marine carrying a Heavy Bolter would also be slow moving and cumbersome almost like a Terminator, but can't move and fire (at least in the rules I have from the 1st edition). But also without the sustained fire bonus, because a normal Space Marine doesn't have the targeting computers that are built into Tactical Dreadnought Armour.

Normal Space Marines carry standard Bolters. In the game, these would only roll one dice, but still require a 6 to kill a Genestealer. So if a Genestealer comes round a corner that's less than 5 spaces away, the odds are you won't kill it before it gets close enough to attack.

Which brings us to the issue of normal Power Armour vs Tactical Dreadnought Armour. A normal Marine still rolls one dice, but has to subtract 2 from the result, so can never score more than 4. The Genestealer will still be rolling three dice with no modifiers. Got to very very lucky to survive, let alone win the attack.

The only movement benefit a normal Space Marine has is that a 90 degree turn cost 0 APs and two together (a 180 turn around) costs just 1 AP instead of 2. You'd still only get 4APs though. The 6 points that the Genestealers get reflects their speed and agility.

So you can see, normal Marines wouldn't have any advantage at all. The only possibly benefit would be that you would have squads of 10 Marines instead of just 5 Terminators, so more firepower. But in the close, confined corridors of a Space Hulk, you'd still only have one unit per square so you'd never get to make effective use of the extra firepower.
The rules for Imperial Guard, as I remember, allowed them to shoot past each other, because the lack of power armour meant they took up less space. But like normal Space Marines only their heavy weapons are effective against Genestealers.
datguy13 Jan 1 @ 12:30pm 
Devastators ftw anyone? :)
ServantofLazav Jan 1 @ 12:44pm 
as people have said, the issue is that you need to bring a lot of firepower to bear in order to kill 'stealers and the normal marines just can't do that effectively. in addition, it's a question of training, as terminators are the only ones trained in these actions well enough to actually be effective in close combat, which, as we see in game, is crucial vs. stealers there's also the matter of how many marines you can actually deploy, as most would be deployed elsewhere, and only a handful could be spared for space hulk ops.
illitrate Jan 1 @ 1:35pm 
As in a Devastators squad?
Not sure, cos the rules I have for putting them into Space Hulk rates that squad as a 13 point squad. 1 Sergeant with Bolter, 4 marines with heavy weapons and 5 marines with just Bolters.
So it's the equivalent of 4 Terminators with Storm Bolters.
But for 10 points, you can have 5 Terminators, so better :)
Uglyspirit Jan 1 @ 2:01pm 
I'm gonna wet myself...
LorgarXII Jan 1 @ 2:49pm 
that opening movie is kinda BS. a whole chapter of astartes is 1000 marines (codex following chapters anyway, which the blood angels are) of which 100 first company veterans and some captains mau be issued with terminator armor. also is a chapter was reduced to less than 100 marines they would be considered "unviable" and basically would not longer be a space marine chapter.
Rigged Jan 1 @ 3:56pm 
Originally posted by LorgarXII:
that opening movie is kinda BS. a whole chapter of astartes is 1000 marines (codex following chapters anyway, which the blood angels are) of which 100 first company veterans and some captains mau be issued with terminator armor. also is a chapter was reduced to less than 100 marines they would be considered "unviable" and basically would not longer be a space marine chapter.

The intro movie is in no way BS. You need to read up more on 40k lore and you will find out that this has happened before besides there is a heck of alot more to a chapter than just the marines themselves.
Last edited by Rigged; Jan 1 @ 3:58pm
AstaЯtesPaИda Jan 1 @ 4:39pm 
NO he is right, if the chapter is reduced to less then 100 marines, the chapter is dead. No ifs ands or buts. The Crimson Fists got ♥♥♥♥ed and down to around 500 marines, and many many many decades later they are still NOT at full strength of 1000 Codex standard. The Sythes of the Emperor is another chapter that is close to being dead only with around 1 and a half company 150+ marines.

50 marines getting out and still being a "chpater" is bs. Terminator armour or not an astartes is still mega hard, they take time to train up and get to wear their armour.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Blood_angels please tell me when this cripplein event happend to the chapter ?
Last edited by AstaЯtesPaИda; Jan 1 @ 4:40pm
LorgarXII Jan 1 @ 7:01pm 
Originally posted by Rigged:
Originally posted by LorgarXII:
that opening movie is kinda BS. a whole chapter of astartes is 1000 marines (codex following chapters anyway, which the blood angels are) of which 100 first company veterans and some captains mau be issued with terminator armor. also is a chapter was reduced to less than 100 marines they would be considered "unviable" and basically would not longer be a space marine chapter.

The intro movie is in no way BS. You need to read up more on 40k lore and you will find out that this has happened before besides there is a heck of alot more to a chapter than just the marines themselves.

please give me a link to where you're getting your 40k lore. the ONLY way the blood angels deviate from the codex is their use of what they call "sanguinary priests/guards" other than that they follow the codex in terms of fleet, chapter strength, and even most unit markings.
AstaЯtesPaИda Jan 1 @ 8:16pm 
you cant tell me an entire chapter and 1st founding like the blood angels is going to deloy the entire chapter and loose. Really ? its not like a hive fleet, or a nid or ork invasion, or a black crusade.
Rigged Jan 1 @ 8:46pm 
Originally posted by LorgarXII:
Originally posted by Rigged:

The intro movie is in no way BS. You need to read up more on 40k lore and you will find out that this has happened before besides there is a heck of alot more to a chapter than just the marines themselves.

please give me a link to where you're getting your 40k lore. the ONLY way the blood angels deviate from the codex is their use of what they call "sanguinary priests/guards" other than that they follow the codex in terms of fleet, chapter strength, and even most unit markings.

My bad my bad. I was too distracted when I responded to your post. I stand corrected and sheepishly fade away into the shadows.

I feel dumb. I have only recently gotten into 40k(cannot get enough its rather killer stuff) so I shall follow my own advice and read up more on the lore.
Oliver Clozov Jan 1 @ 9:34pm 
Originally posted by AstaЯtesPaИda:
you cant tell me an entire chapter and 1st founding like the blood angels is going to deloy the entire chapter and loose. Really ? its not like a hive fleet, or a nid or ork invasion, or a black crusade.

It is perfectly normal for 1000 strong marines units to get mutiliated, for example, the 7th legion lost about 25000 marines in a single engagement with elements of the 4th legion.
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Date Posted: Jan 1 @ 10:59am
Posts: 81