Space Hulk > General Discussions > Topic Details
ian323183 Dec 26, 2013 @ 10:57am
Genestealers moving forward on Terminator jam
Is the issue with the Genestealers not moving forward one space when the Terminators get a jam ever going to be fixed? I’ve stopped playing until this is sorted but it seems to have gone by the wayside. Not very pleased to be honest.
Showing 1-15 of 37 comments
< >
Zuggi  [developer] Dec 27, 2013 @ 1:21am 
I guess you're talking about the rule that they should be allowed to take one step when the termie is Jamming. I can't remmeber if this was changed but will talk with the coders after New Years
ian323183 Dec 27, 2013 @ 4:08am 
Yes thats the one. It was mentioned way back as getting fixed but never happened. Thanks for the update tho.
Homba Jan 4 @ 10:18am 
Yes, the marine clears the jam 'instantly' with the command point and gets to shoot at the stealer as it takes its next step. Or maybe - hard to tell - gets to repeat the very shot that jams, which is even better for the marine. At least in the game graphics, the stealer moves back a space when the jam clears - something weird going on.

Overwatch is extremely deadly in this edition - this coming from a player of the first edition board game where it was much less of a sure thing. I'm not saying that's a good or bad thing, just different. The lightning claws sure have been nerfed, used to be +2. I'm pretty sure the Thunder hammer was also +2, but this was before the introduction of Guard, so it probably evens out (at least when you are defending and on Guard - you really take your life in your hands when meleeing on your turn when you can't be on Guard).
illitrate Jan 4 @ 1:21pm 
I think it's the sustained fire. In the first edition sustained fire kept on adding -1 to the to-kill score until the fourth shot only required 3+
But it didn't apply during Overwatch.
I guess the 2nd or 3rd edition rules evened this out by making the SF modifier apply in OW, but at the same time making it less effective. So OW seems deadlier, but normal turns it's more likely you can spend all your APs and still have a Genestealer standing right in front if you.
Zuggi  [developer] Jan 6 @ 3:54am 
Looks like it's going to be changd, and will probably fix the "Gs step back bug" as well.
ian323183 Jan 6 @ 5:45am 
Great news thanks. As soon as thats done it will be some DLC for me!
Zuggi  [developer] Jan 14 @ 7:53am 
May have jumped the gun there...keeping track of all these rules is tricky. The rules state that a Terminator can spend CP to unjam...See page 17 in the 3rd edition rulebook. "The action happen immediately, and before the Genestealer carries out its next action." Kinda should counter this....can't remember if there's something in the clarifications....Looking back I'm pretty sure this has been discussed before.
Homba Jan 14 @ 7:31pm 
This source disagrees with you, Zuggi:
http://www.thewinternet.com/space_hulk_1st_vs_3rd.pdf

I have yet to be able to get my hands on an actual 3rd edition rulebook.

Another issue is apparently jams clear automatically when the round ends in third ed., they dont persist into the next round. Saw this in several sources. This is not modeled in Full Control's Space Hulk.
rinaldop Jan 14 @ 8:45pm 
I found a pdf of the 3rd edition rulebook here
http://ulozto.net/x4d32vk/space-hulk-3rd-edition-rulebook-ocr-pdf
Although in this book it is on page 11 under the section called COMMAND POINTS
Each action witnessed allows a Space Marine to perform one action (this may be an action that costs 2 action/command points). The Space Marine's action happens immediately, and before the Genestealer carries out its next action
But under OVERWATCH ACTIONS it says this
Shooting in Overwatch
When in overwatch, a Space Marine armed with a storm bolter or assault cannon can perform shoot actions in the Genestealer turn without expending any action points.
He must take one shoot action each time a Genestealer performs an action within his line of sight and within a range of 12 squares. The overwatch fire is resolved after the Genestealer has performed its action, so if this action takes the Genestealer out of the Space Marine's range or line of sight then there is no shooting
This kind of stuff is why I never played these games as a kid ;)
Last edited by rinaldop; Jan 14 @ 8:53pm
Homba Jan 14 @ 10:32pm 
Thanks rinaldop, I have the rulebook now. It is remarkably vague on some issues. I do not believe it allows the "instant" use of a CP to clear a jam after shooting at a stealer but before the stealer takes another step - I think that is a VERY strained reading of the relevant sections. The lead developer of 3rd addition clarifies this (and agrees with me) in his errata FAQ here:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/file/download/59lmup4♥♥♥/Additional_SH_Clarifications_09_Dec_15.pdf

You may have to log in to BGG to get the pdf. Here it is copied into text word for word:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/467081/additional-clarifications-from-jervis-johnson-game

Note the very first Q&A:
---------------
Q. Can command points be used in addition to an overwatch shot in response to one Genestealer action? In other words, can a Space Marine take his overwatch shot and then immediately spend a command point to take another shot, clear a jam, or switch to guard mode, for example?
A. No.
----------------

+ +

As I said in the post above, the 3rd ed. rules do clearly state that jams are automatically cleared after the genestealer turn. But right now Full Control's adaptation is using the 1st ed. rule on this point.

H



ken.allen.1976 Jan 14 @ 11:07pm 
Yep that seems how I think it should be. A genestealer moves and a terminator jams. The stealer has to move (in the terminators LOS) for the terminator to unjam his bolter. The genestealer then has to then move again (within LOS) for the terminator to be able to shoot again minus any sustained bonus.
Zuggi  [developer] Jan 15 @ 1:31am 
Originally posted by Homba:
This source disagrees with you, Zuggi:
http://www.thewinternet.com/space_hulk_1st_vs_3rd.pdf

I have yet to be able to get my hands on an actual 3rd edition rulebook.

Another issue is apparently jams clear automatically when the round ends in third ed., they dont persist into the next round. Saw this in several sources. This is not modeled in Full Control's Space Hulk.

Yeah, the clearing jams was changed (can't remember why)...balancing I guess
Last edited by Zuggi; Jan 15 @ 1:35am
Homba Jan 15 @ 11:04am 
Originally posted by Zuggi:
Originally posted by Homba:

Another issue is apparently jams clear automatically when the round ends in third ed., they dont persist into the next round. Saw this in several sources. This is not modeled in Full Control's Space Hulk.

Yeah, the clearing jams was changed (can't remember why)...balancing I guess

Good to hear, I think that's a better rule anyway.
rinaldop Jan 15 @ 11:26am 
Originally posted by ken.allen.1976:
Yep that seems how I think it should be. A genestealer moves and a terminator jams. The stealer has to move (in the terminators LOS) for the terminator to unjam his bolter. The genestealer then has to then move again (within LOS) for the terminator to be able to shoot again minus any sustained bonus.
If a GS gets TWO more steps forward that would make the game a LOT harder. When I first started playing SH I thought the game was very difficult (this video game is the first time I ever heard of it) But I have to say that by the time I got to the secomd DLC it was easy, I won them all on my first attempt.
illitrate Jan 15 @ 11:27am 
Originally posted by Homba:
Good to hear, I think that's a better rule anyway.

I agree. It makes sense too - if it cost 1 CP to unjam in the Genestealer turn, then it should also cost 1 AP in the Terminators turn.
Last edited by illitrate; Jan 15 @ 11:29am
Showing 1-15 of 37 comments
< >
Per page: 15 30 50
Date Posted: Dec 26, 2013 @ 10:57am
Posts: 37